Can You Teach What You've Never Done?

Speaker 1: Can you teach it if you have not done it? This is a, this is an interesting question that came up in conversation, uh, a good friend of ours, Benjamin Marx. And he said, oh, what do you think of, um, a good friend wrestling prep? Isn't this interesting? And I was like, no, I think not. He's like, what? She's very good. I'm like, at what? Now, I had thought about this, folks. I thought, am I going to go on a massive rant? Speaker 2: Joe's assuming everyone's seen wrestling prep, by the way. Speaker 1: Well, no, wrestling prep, Carolyn Wester, she's pretty famous. Speaker 2: Yeah, she's got a big account. Speaker 1: She's got a big account. Speaker 2: Coach, she coaches a lot of, a lot of, uh, a lot of like, um, young wrestling athletes. Speaker 1: Sure, and she's been connected with some reputable people, definitely. Um, but I would say I don't know if it's applicable to everyone, right? And this is why my immediate reaction is this is bullshit. Because her background is not actually as a wrestler, right? And there's plenty of people who've riffed on this saying, she's not a wrestler, she's not reputable. Even though there've been some high-level wrestlers who've taken advice from her. But I wanted to talk about, um, there are some pretty famous coaches, and this kind of gets into the coach athlete debate. But I wanted to go, I wanted to take this conversation a little bit sideways. Um, Speaker 2: Sounds like you. Speaker 1: No, no, no, very, a very, I mean, trust me, I just want to get on here and just, just blast, right? Speaker 2: Tear the place down. Speaker 1: Just tear the place down with negativity. But that's not going to help you. So, let's think about this. There are a lot of great coaches out there who have maybe, um, lost their physical abilities over time through injury and, and, and hard work and dedicating themselves to a craft, who can no longer demonstrate the amazing movements that maybe at some point they once did. Speaker 2: Yeah. Through the dedication of the thing. Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, and fair enough, but at some point in history, in their history, they did the thing. Speaker 2: Right. Speaker 1: You know, and they can point to the videos and the photos and go, that's me hoisting 200 kilos above my head. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 1: You're like, okay, fair. Or that's me doing a handstand on the rings at the 1984 Olympics, some shit. You're like, okay, amazing. So you can say, yes. What is interesting to me about, um, wrestling prep is Carolyn Wester is not a wrestler. Uh, she was a wrestling mom, but her background was actually as a venture capitalist. And, uh, she was in equestrian, and did hand wrestling, wrist wrestling. Anyway, very interesting. I you go, you go have a look and she has, because she has mathematical insight. And I'm like, you can't quant wrestling. But apparently you can. And so when I look at some of her input, but people like, but isn't it interesting that she could, she could help people at like, American Kickboxing Academy and, oh, she hangs out with DC and she hangs out with Khabib. And I'm like, she's given nothing to those guys. They're Olympic champion, you know, they're Olympic champions. Like, I, I feel that you can learn from anybody, definitely. And and actually you often get unique insights from someone who is outside of the thing itself, because they see holes that other people don't see. And this is the argument that, uh, Benjamin Marx was making to me. He's like, nah, but she's got insight. And I'm like, nah, not for me. Not interested. Not buying. Not picking up what you're putting down. Go fuck yourself. And but I thought, Speaker 2: Because she doesn't look the part. Speaker 1: Not even that she doesn't look the part. I mean, yeah, look, it'd be great if she could touch her toes, I'd respect her more. Um, but it's not even that she doesn't look the part. I believe that what she brings isn't necessarily what would help most people. Like, I actually don't think it's relevant to most people. Speaker 2: But just to clarify, she's teaching, she's not teaching wrestling, she's teaching people how to move for wrestling. She's building like, Speaker 1: And she, she cannot move. Speaker 2: No, no, no, no. Speaker 1: And at no point in time has ever been a good mover. Speaker 2: No, no, no, of course. But, but, Speaker 1: So, but not of course. Like, Speaker 2: No, but I'm painting a picture for the listeners before we judge the thing, just to clarify. She, she teaches people how to, how to move better with wrestling type movements, mobility, range, that kind of thing. Speaker 1: She has a particular approach based off mathematical principle, I'm not going to get into. Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. But, but you look at, you look at the students, they move well. You're like, they, they're doing the stuff she's teaching and they move, and that's what she's selling is like, I'm going to teach you how to move like a panther. Right? So you can be a, Speaker 1: Sure. Right? Sure. Speaker 2: So, I don't know. I mean, what do you, what's the, because if we say like, you can't, is that your position that you, if you haven't done it, then you can't teach it? Speaker 1: No, no, no, no. I'm saying that what she's bringing, you could learn from any tumbling coach at a high school gymnastics class. Like, what she's bringing ain't that great. Speaker 2: All right. Speaker 1: Like, everyone's trying to say, oh, it's so special. It's like, no, or just go learn tumbling. You got, oh, you're going to do a backflip into a pistol and now reshoot? Just, okay, well, go learn tumbling. Uh, can you do a pistol? Do you even know what a pistol squat is? Do a pistol squat. No, okay. Folks, don't get gassed up. Don't believe the hype. Speaker 2: Yeah, but so, so then is that, is that the beef that you think she's kind of making her method out to be something, Speaker 1: It's not, it's not relevant. It's not, absolutely not relevant. I think this is the thing, and this is what I wanted to get to, but we, we can flesh this out. Look, the difficulty is people like, oh, yeah, but she hangs out at American Kickboxing Academy and, oh, wasn't she like, Amit Elo's like wrestling coach? It's like, no, she did work with Amit. Uh, it was, I think she was the youngest gold medalist at the Olympics for wrestling. Speaker 2: Right. Speaker 1: Right? That's, uh, Mika Galvão's, uh, partner. Speaker 2: Ah, yes. Yeah. Speaker 1: Wife, I believe. Um, and so, who is an incredible wrestler. And so, you can point, she can point to her and say, I worked with her. Speaker 2: Yeah, she's got like social credit by working with some high-level athletes. Speaker 1: For sure, for sure. And so, I'm not saying people can't learn things from Carolyn Wester. I am not going to learn shit from Carolyn Wester. No way, no how. You cannot convince me that there is anything of, uh, importance or uniqueness that's worth the painful thing it is to hear her speak, to, to, to learn that lesson. Speaker 2: Um, I mean, this is a cool topic for an episode because I'm sure everyone really is interested to know why you're so venomous about Carolyn Wester. What, what is it like, you're saying, what is the, what is the problem? Speaker 1: Okay. So, the thing that is not addressed, and this is what I wanted to get to, because I wanted to make this discussion useful. Because I did think to myself, Joe, Speaker 2: Did you? Speaker 1: Yeah, I did. I didn't want to just rant. Speaker 2: Could have fooled us. Speaker 1: Hey, no, no, no, no, no. Let me get there, Joe. I was going to, I was going to just skip the bit where I get venomous. But essentially, um, there are many good examples of people who were not champions of the sport, but became very successful coaches, right? Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 1: Eddie Roach is an example of that. Speaker 2: I mean, Speaker 1: He was very much a failed boxer, by all means. But in his insight and kind of being around the sport, he very much popularized pad work, right? Like, he really emphasized that over bag work and everything else. And that is shown in, Speaker 2: Freddie Roach. Speaker 1: Freddie Roach, yep. In, in, you know, obviously, and he was, uh, uh, Speaker 2: We're firemen. Speaker 1: No, that's not. Speaker 2: Isn't that Freddie Roach? Speaker 1: No, that's not Freddie Roach. Speaker 2: Oh, who the fuck's that guy? Speaker 1: Oh, mate. Sorry, uh, we, we can, we can search it. That's a great spin. Speaker 2: No, yeah, it's okay. Speaker 1: No, no, but he was Manny Pacquiao's coach. That's how he really got his fame. Speaker 2: Right. Manny Pacquiao's no fireman. Speaker 1: No, he's not. But what I would say is this, is that you can, even people talk about John Danaher, but I actually think John Danaher is underrated in his level of jiu-jitsu. Speaker 2: Perhaps. But I, I think that like, so this, this assertion that like, you can't, you can't teach a thing if you haven't done the thing. I think that I, I don't really see a case for that. Speaker 1: No, no, no. I, no, no, no. I didn't, that's not what I said. Speaker 2: No, no, no. But that was kind of where you, you, you were, you were going to say that there's a bunch of great coaches who are not in their own right great athletes. And so it's like, yeah, well, it's kind of been proven out that you can be a really good coach while also not being a highly accomplished athlete. Speaker 1: Those folks did the thing. They, what I'm saying is like, Speaker 2: Right, some did, yeah. Speaker 1: Right. They, some did. Right. And you can, no, I don't, I don't, I, I can't point to any coaches who never played the sport they coach. I'm not saying they're elite athletes. The, the people, like Freddie Roach did box and, you know, John Danaher did extensive amounts of jiu-jitsu. Someone from outside of a field can give insight. No question. And often breakthroughs come from adjacencies and separate things, right? Because people who are deep in it don't necessarily have those insights. What I'm saying is that is not what you're necessarily going to get from Carolyn Wester. I think it's hype. I actually just think she's well marketed. Like, you're a VC wrestling mom and so now you're consulting at AKA, like, you're just doing it for clout. How bored are you with your life? Like, like, how much money do you have that you're doing this? Like, I, I, I really, I'm confused because I understand obviously the woman is really passionate about wrestling. But what I don't fully comprehend is when I look at the drills and I look at the training, I'm like, this isn't applicable to 95% of anyone I know in grappling. Like, do a backflip. I can't do a backflip. Do a backflip, Joe. Do a backflip into a pistol, Joe. Fuck off. Like, do a pistol. Like, just do a backbend. Could you even break it down into its smaller component skills? No, you cannot, because you can't quant your way into a backbend. Like, it, it is so annoying to me that people have really bought into the, the hype of what it is, because it is extremely well marketed. And I'm calling bullshit. And that's why I wanted to get into JT's bullshit minimization framework. That's where we're going today, folks. Is it relevant to me? Should I fucking listen to this bullshit? Because you need to have a filter. I have no filter. But no, I mean, you need to be able to look at something. Speaker 2: I love it. There's a bunch, there's a bunch of listeners right now that are googling like, her Google results are just shooting up. They're like, fuck, this shit looks good. Speaker 1: She's like, I'm going to cancel my bulletproof subscription and jump on this. I'm going to start paying money to, you fucking idiot. Shut up. Stop talking about it. Speaker 2: Hey, you fucking give you my honest recommendation for one of the best supplements I've implemented in my daily, particularly for my jiu-jitsu training, it's Sodi. It's these electrolytes. We talk about them all the time. They've sponsored the show for some time, but it's excellent. Flavor's great, but more importantly, the electrolytes are exactly what my body wants in a hard, sweaty jiu-jitsu session. It replenishes, uh, my system with all the stuff that I need after all of that sweat. Uh, magnesium, potassium, salt, it's great stuff. You can get yourself a bunch and you can get yourself a discount if you go to Sodi, S O D I I dot com dot au and use the code Bulletproof15, you get 15% off your order. Yeah. Speaker 1: You might ask yourself, why do I look like John Danaher in the recording booth? Because I'm rocking my alchemical beautiful hemp gi. Ladies and gentlemen, this is a world first. It's lightweight. The hemp feel is immaculate. And that's the thing I want to get to. Not only does it feel amazing, but under pressure, this gi stands up. Lightweight, dries quickly, and no stink. This is the amazing thing. I'm a sweaty guy. You put this thing in a bag full of sweat, you get it out, you put it through the wash, it does not stink. It feels amazing, it smells amazing, and it's good for you too. You're not soaked in plastic. You're not using artificial chemicals, and you're not using cotton that is destroying the environment. These hemp gis from Alchemical are something you have to feel to know the difference. Go to Alchemicalfightwear dot com dot au and use the code Bulletproof and you will get 15% off. Yeah. Speaker 1: But that's the thing, like, I, I, the reason why is I wanted to have this chat not because, Speaker 2: Careless, bro. Speaker 1: I'm hating on, on her in particular. It's more that I, um, overthink things. You know, I spend a lot of time thinking about stuff. And it's exhausting. And so what I've had to do is find a way to get rid of shit, right? People often like, what do you think of this? And I'm like, And I, Speaker 2: Yeah, but, but you're like, you're like, let me think about this for ages and then I'll record a podcast on this. And then, Speaker 1: Benny Marx like, bro, I just asked you that question and then I moved on. Speaker 2: You're like, you're like, I dragged Joey into the depths of it and we dragged all of our listeners and I still don't feel any better. Speaker 1: No, no, no. I never feel better, so don't worry about that. But, uh, you can suffer with me, Joe. Um, Speaker 2: You're dragging me into the ship. Speaker 1: I think the, the thing I wanted to get into, and this is, Speaker 2: I'm quite about her, of course, by the way. Speaker 1: Okay, great. Fantastic. I was, I, how is your backflip into pistol, Joe? Speaker 2: It's coming along. Speaker 1: On, on your right leg too? Speaker 2: It's coming along. Speaker 1: Spectacular. Is there a, is there a physical pre-screen before that? I'm bulletproof, baby. Speaker 2: Joe, Joe will be back with, uh, ACL reconstruction number two. Speaker 1: Um, my bullshit slash relevance framework. Relevance, your honor. Objection, sustained. Where are you right now? Here's the thing, in your jiu-jitsu, your physical journey, do you even know where you're at? Because a lot of folks don't know where they're at. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 1: So to try to understand if something is applicable to you, you actually know what, you need to know where you're at right now. And don't get me wrong, I, I think we all want to be badass wrestlers, right? When you see the clips on the videos of these young wrestlers just doing flips and kicks and shooting and they're, they're, they're running around on their hands and feet in the back, you're like, I want that. Speaker 2: It's exorcist level shit. Speaker 1: It's crazy, right? And, and, I mean, I, I personally don't want that because I think it's whack. But you might want that and good for you. But do you even know, when was the last time you did a backbend? Or can you even hang? Could your shoulders take that? Can your wrists take that? Like, it's super important and this, this is a three-step framework, so we'll, we'll get to it real quick, folks, so bear with me. Where are you right now on the map of wherever you're trying to go? If you don't know where you're at on a physical level, just trying to attempt something like that because it looks cool or it's awesome, is not a good idea, right? So I think what is really important, first step, whether you're thinking of learning a new skill, let it be physical or mental or whatever it is, you're like, do I have a background in, in the thing? I have no experience, I have no knowledge. It's important when you go to see a coach or you go to start a new thing that you get an accurate assessment of where you are right now. Otherwise, you're fucked anyway, basically. Speaker 2: Hmm. Speaker 1: Right? So if you don't know where you are right now, you can't actually work out if this thing, this is relevant to you. The second thing is this, is does this help me? It looks cool, right? It looks like a cool, do you know, I, so I'm going to give a shout out to my friend Kyle. He doesn't really listen to the podcast, but he's always sending me clips, and you'd love this, Joe. Kettlebell flows. Fucking, you know, dudes just wielding, just like 15 different moves, and then suddenly a burpee into a pull-up into like, you know, you're just like, whoa, he's like, how good's this? And I'm always like, thumbs up. Nah. No, that's trash, but I know you like it, Kyle, and I know you're never going to do that workout. You know how things are constructed to look cool? Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 1: It, it may have nothing to do with what's going to help you right now. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 1: You know, how many things are out there that are novelty and they get your attention? It's kind of the, um, social media effect. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 1: But actually don't, don't help you. Don't help your business. Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. Speaker 1: Don't, don't help you physically. Like, can you think of any examples or is there anything where you, uh, for you, Joe, where you, you see it being popular, I'm not kettlebell flow. Speaker 2: We see it in exercise all the time. The one, the ones that I fucking think are hilarious, well, the ones that I used to get sent a lot by people, was usually some like, some American like kind of military Chad. Yep. In a gym doing like, toes to bar with leg raises or something, and then there's like, some other like often a black dude with gloves, boxing gloves on, like punch him in the abs when he's at the bottom and he do the thing and you're like, and people be like, fuck, look, look how tough this guy, like, that it looks like the hardest workout ever. Yeah, and you're just like, it's all for show, right? Speaker 1: Yeah. So, yeah, there's a lot of that shit in our social media age. And, and so if you are not sure if something can help you or not, like, it's good to get advice. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 1: So, a really good coach, and this is I think if you're trying to work it out there and it's always good to get advice. Most of the time you might go to your most knowledgeable friend. So if you don't know something about a car, you've got a mate who knows cars, you ask them, oh, man, I'm thinking about buying this car. He's like, don't do that. That's a terrible car. It's going to have heaps of problems, don't do it. But what's great about the internet, apart from the bunch of, uh, disinformation and confusion, is there's plenty of people who are experts, right? And if they are reputable and, you know, people are pretty open, if they care about the topic and you put something in the comment section, they're, they'll probably get back to you. I mean, we try to get back to folks, right? If you message us, we'll, we'll, we'll try and let you know what, however we can help you. Sometimes it's not helpful. Sometimes the thing you think's going to help you isn't the thing. And so getting advice is the next most important step. Once you've decided, okay, I want to do this thing, getting expert advice about whether or not that is going to help you is really important. And the thing that I don't, don't love about wrestling prep is it's out there as like, everybody should do this. Come do my workshop. Everyone should do this. And I'm like, I look at those movements and I'm like, most people cannot touch that level of movement. And, and what is not spoken about is the steps it takes to be able to progress to that. And I think that in that way it's negligent. And that kind of burns me a little bit, you know? Speaker 2: Do you know that if you looked, Speaker 1: I, I, I watched a guy, I follow a guy who went and did her workshop and he struggled. He's a strong fit guy. Like, he moves, he moves pretty well and he was, I mean, afterwards he was like, that was, that was great, thanks. That was, yeah, learned so much. I'm like, guy was cooked. Like, he was struggling with a lot of the movements. Speaker 2: Right. Speaker 1: And, and he, he's a very capable person. So, Speaker 2: But like, do you know that like that there is negligence in how it's taught? Or is it just you think it's negligence? Speaker 1: No, I'm not saying negligence like get sued. I'm just saying like, it's fucking retarded. Like, give people some options. Like, I, it's, it's, it's so annoying to me that within, Speaker 2: I don't, we haven't gotten to step three yet. We're going to get to step three. Because I'm really, I really want to use this framework in my life because I, I want to feel more like you feel. And, um, please teach me step three. Uncle. Speaker 1: Step three. I get that all the time. It's funny. Get, I get that uncle a bit. It's the oldness. Um, how does it help you? Like, why, why would you even do the thing? Right? How does a backflip, Speaker 2: What was the second one? Does it help me? Speaker 1: Does it help me? Speaker 2: And then the third one is, how does it help you? Speaker 1: Okay, yep. So like, like relate this to what you're trying to achieve. Because often times we take actions thinking it's going to lead to an outcome and it does not. And so, okay, you've chosen, all right, I'm going to do a thing. I've asked the expert, the expert's told me, yes, go, do the thing. And you actually have to check back in to go, is this having the desired effect? So for example, like someone's like, man, I'm doing keto and first two weeks, I'm feeling so good. And then suddenly that's not feeling as good and then four weeks in, you're like, oh, man, I'm really low energy or, you know, some people feel great for four weeks, you know, like, there's certain things that like, you have to check back in to go, is this actually helping me? How is this actually helping me? Because I've decided and can I change my mind? Yes, I can. Maybe I shouldn't keep doing this. Right? And you know, we, we'd probably, I think we'd had similar discussions when I had, um, I wanted to do bouldering. I was doing bouldering on a Sunday when I was living in Sydney. And you're like, is that not too much? Is that not too much grip? And I'm like, no, bouldering's the best. But I didn't have any recovery and I went for a big grip and I tore my hand. Speaker 2: Hmm. Speaker 1: Which meant I could then do no other grip work. So yes, it proved to be too much. And it defeated my goal of making my grip stronger in that way. Speaker 2: Yeah, right. Speaker 1: You know, and that's inexperience too. But what I wanted to say with this is, when you say, where am I now? Is it relevant? Seek some expert advice and then check back in to go, I'm doing the thing, is this helping me? Like, how is it helping me? This is where you can form the decision of like, yeah, this is, this is good. Not just like, oh, that's a cool post on Instagram. Right? And I feel like for the best part, a lot of folks get really sold on the look and the marketing, and I feel like that is a lot of what that is. And that that's not the truth of what's going to help you. Because most people don't know where they are, they don't seek expert advice and therefore do not take the steps to go through and and develop the skill or develop the new practice. Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd agree with that. Speaker 1: So that is my framework for figuring out if something is relevant or if it's maybe just a little bit bullshit. And that's where, you know, it's up to you. How much time have you got? How much, uh, how many late nights do you want to spend just trolling someone's Instagram, Google searching, go back referencing, you know, like just, I mean, maybe you've got hobbies, maybe you've got a life, so maybe that's not important to you. But, um, folks, if you can use that filter, I think you'll save yourself a lot of time. Speaker 2: Thank you for making it this far in the show.