10th Planet Jiu-Jitsu Black Belt Nathan Orchard (Episode 401)

What up guys? Welcome to the Jiu-Jitsu Podcast. Today we have uh Nathan Orchard, a 10th Planet Black Belt. I think he's like a third degree black belt uh under Eddie uh on the podcast with us and uh we're going to be getting into, you know, he's a he's a martial artist, a jiu-jitsu guy, a jiu-jitsu competitor. Um has an interesting story and then we of course, like we do, he's he's a good guy. I feel like this is something maybe, I don't know if it's like this happens like uh as guys get older, but you know, men and women get older, but just can follow tangents. So we go off on lots of tangents related to martial arts training, but there's a a couple of really useful tips in it for training. Like we talk about how to like find your like find your game, you know, because everybody wants to do that. And so we get into something that like he says and again, I agree with it. We kind of talk about that a little bit with it. There's several useful tips, some good tips for training as you get older, which again, I know a lot of you that are listening to this, not everyone, right? But uh some of you guys are, you know, typically in the masters divisions or older, right? You're up in there masters one, two, three and four. And um so forth, maybe even five. And uh so again, some useful stuff and some entertaining stuff as well. So hopefully you guys enjoy the podcast and uh let's get into it. Big thanks to our sponsors for helping make the podcast happen. You guys uh can check out Charlotte's Web. They're one of the OGs in the CBD space. They make a lot of terrific products. Um they make a lot of new stuff now besides CBD. They have the CBD, the CBN products, the cannabinoid stuff. They also have some stuff with functional mushrooms, products like one of the products I've been uh using is like it's like reishi and chamomile and some other stuff and it's like it's like a little gummy, take it at night, kind of helps support sleep, but it doesn't have any CBD in that. That's just a functional mushroom product. Um they've got some other stuff like Lion's Mane, things of that nature, right? Tons of different products now. Um but if if you guys want to go to their website and kind of see what they have, you can kind of take a look through their their catalog of of products, whether you're trying to, you know, get more better sleep or, you know, use the muscle bombs for recovery, soreness. Um you can get 30% off the order by using the promo code ChewyJitsu30 at checkout. Uh and again, most of their stuff in with my mind categorically sort of falls under the umbrella of recovery, right? Like being able to deal with stress induced inflammation or uh sports induced inflammation and being able to recover, get better sleep, supportive sleep, that kind of stuff. So check them out at uh charlottesweb.com. Promo code is ChewyJitsu30. Also thanks to our buddies over at Epic Roll for supporting the podcast. If you guys want to get some new gear, for me, that's like one of the things, maybe and and maybe you're not this person, but sometimes if I'm in a slump, I like to go get some gear. I remember me and uh Eugene were out at a uh at the ADCC in 2022, they had that big Jiu-Jitsu Expo down there as well. And I remember um one of the companies that was there, they gave us all kinds of stuff because they were like, dude, we got to ship this stuff back overseas. Like, you know, if you'll wear it in a video or something, we'll just give it to you. And they're like, what size do you want? So they started giving us some stuff and I remember how excited I was to go put on the new gear. Uh so sometimes it could be like a fun thing to do, get some new gear. I'm sure your wife or husband, if they don't train, they won't be happy about it. But you know, you can you can you can make it up to them, right? Um one of my buddies was like, you know, he's like, if I bring home another gi, my wife's going to kill me. Um you know, because his nasty gis are everywhere and she's having to wash them. But again, if you guys want to check them out, they've got a lot of good gear, a lot of good t-shirts, merch and all that kind of stuff. Pretty pretty much anything and everything you can think of jiu-jitsu related. The website is epicrollbjj.com. Promo code is ChewyJitsu20 for 20% off the order. Also, if you guys want to support the podcast that you're listening to, you can roll on over to the Patreon at patreon.com/thejiujitsupodcast. I'm sure you're aware of how this works. It's a it's a membership thing that you can then support the podcast with and in return, we give you some different perks and offerings and things like that to say thank you. And so we give you some blessings for saying thank you and we appreciate um you guys for supporting us and joining the Patreon. And you guys, if you want to, you can go to the website. It's very inexpensive. Again, it's nothing crazy. Um but if you listen to the podcast and you enjoy it and you'd like to support it, you can do that as well. Also, thanks to uh or not thanks to anything. Thanks to me because the next one's going to be my website. Sorry, I just jumped in. Thanks Chewy. Thanks Chewy. If you guys want to get my daily email, you can do so by going to my website at chewyjitsu.net/join and when you join up, uh it'll take you to the uh the the page there and then you'll get my daily email and at the same time, you'll also receive an ebook and a video that goes through some ideas on focus jiu-jitsu, which we talk about this and this idea of intentionality on the podcast later on with Nathan. So kind of listen to that part. But this idea of intentionality is is part of being focused. It's so key if you want to get better at jiu-jitsu. Um there's so many different ways to manipulate everything about jiu-jitsu and um your training and all that stuff. And you can do it even if you're just doing it during an open roll. Like Nathan will talk about that during the podcast, right? And so, um this is a book and a video that literally just goes through that. It's just talking about here's how to figure out some different ways to manipulate your rolling to be more focused, to be more intentional with your training and to get more from the training. Um and there's a lot of different ways you can do that and I give you some ideas. About 12 different ideas on how to do that. And I go through it in video or ebook form. So if you don't want to read, you can watch. If you don't want to watch, you can read. Uh chewyjitsu.net/join. Let's get into this podcast with Nathan and uh appreciate you guys for listening. Speaker 1: So bro, how did you get into um how did you become a 10th Planet guy? I'm curious because like, you know, again, I um I don't know if you started elsewhere. I just know that from the time I sort of started knowing some of the 10th Planet guys, I admit I had I had always heard your name getting brought up, right? Like obviously you have sort of a a a move, the Dead Orchard that's been dubbed, you know, from you, right? Which is always cool if you get a name, you you get, you know, it's always cool like, you know, that's that's part of our naming system. We have the Kimura, the Ezekiel, the De La Riva, the D'arce choke. You got the Dead Orchard. And um but like how did you become a 10th Planet guy? Were you a 10th Planet from the beginning or did you get started afterwards? Speaker 2: No, yeah, I I had uh 21 MMA fights before I even found 10th Planet. Mm. Yeah, so I I'd had a deep career. I mean, you know, it was all amateur MMA, but I went 14 and 7, did all that and and then and I wrestled as well. And then uh, you know, I was just in a little town and I Googled how to get a blue belt. And the first thing that popped up was uh a forum on the website, the 10th Planet, you know, 10thplanetjj.com. And it was like the criteria of how to get a blue belt. Cuz I knew nothing about Jiu-Jitsu. In fact, when I came in, I didn't know that the gi had anything to do with Jiu-Jitsu. I didn't I was not aware because I was just like an MMA guy, wrestler dude, you know. And so uh, so Eddie Bravo, you know, he had you know, had his criteria which at the time was to get 15 matches uh of you winning using 10th Planet techniques/ wearing 10th Planet clothes, throwing the gang sign, whatever. And uh and submit those those videos and you could get ranked. And so I was like, all right, this is like guess what I got to do. I start doing that and along the way I I mean I got noticed and I and I actually the match that got me my blue belt was uh against a really good guy, Mike Dewitt. I mean, he's a 10th Planet homie, but you know, it got me on Eddie's radar because I tapped him with what is now called the Dead Orchard. Back then we didn't have a name for it, right? And so uh, did that, posted it on the forum, you know, and Eddie's like, damn, he made a video right then and there. Nathan Orchard, you're, you know, change that white belt status, you're a blue belt just online. He waved the blue belt around. And I was like, holy shit, like I just got my blue belt from Eddie Bravo. Like, I could die happy, you know what I mean? And uh two weeks later I went down to HQ and uh I trained there for two weeks and he ran me through the ringer, dude. I mean, he really tested me and put me against I had seven test matches. One of them was against Geo Martinez. He was one of my draws. But um out of seven matches, I tapped out, you know, five dudes and some of them were brown belts and I walked away with a purple belt, you know. Speaker 1: Nice. Speaker 2: So I was a I was a blue belt for about three weeks or so and then purple belt. And you know, so again, I just kind of like found 10th Planet and was adopted in slash, you know, brought myself in, you know, I wanted to be a part of it. It seemed like my people and uh Yeah. And so it kind of went from there, man. It's crazy. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 3: Did you did you have any like like like any sort of formalized grappling experience while you're doing these MMA fights or is it just like you and some buddies get together and Speaker 2: Yeah, I was just a wrestler. You know, I wrestled in high school. Yeah. And uh that was it, man. Yeah, we watched the UFC and I was like, okay, I figured out a triangle choke and arm bar. They're pretty simple, really. I was like, oh, I got to throw my leg over dude's shoulder. Okay, whatever. So and and RNC and guillotine, you know, pretty simple, right? So, yeah, I had my first 10 matches, my my first 10 MMA fights. Dude, training basically out on my front lawn with buddies. You know what I mean? Speaker 1: What time period is this? What years? Speaker 2: This so actually I had my first MMA fight in 2004. Speaker 1: Okay. Speaker 2: And I was 16. Uh so that's, you know, and then I didn't I I lost that. I got arm barred and that was actually where I was like, oh, what's Jiu-Jitsu? You know what I mean? And so I'd never really I didn't know anything about it except for like the early UFCs. You know, and then uh uh yeah, so again, I was just training with my friends and none of them even fought. you know, a few wrestler buddies, but some of them would just like let me try moves on them and they'd just try to I don't know, just kind of fight me without fighting each other for real, you know, and Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 2: And then I finally, you know, I I actually got pieced up by a better striker and that's when I was like, okay, well, I guess I better go learn how to strike now. You know, did all that and yeah, so I got the whole striking, you know, I I I kind of backed away from grappling for a few years and just I was just striking. You know, learning to punch and kick. Actually come to find out and I didn't really know this at the time because my coach didn't put a big emphasis on it, but I was learning Hapkido. You know. And so uh people would go out or I'd go fight and they'd be like, oh, you're a karate guy. I'm like, what? I'm just I'm just punching and kicking. Like I don't know what I didn't know the difference. I'm very I was very ignorant to everything. It was just what I knew and uh so it turns out I'm a karate Hapkido guy. Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, you know, back then too, 2004 because I started I wrestled and then started Jiu-Jitsu and started competing in Jiu-Jitsu in 2003. Had my first fight in 2006. The the time period, so we're old guys, right? You know, old guys born in the back in the 1900s. Um, you know, the the uh it sounds so old when you say it that way, doesn't it? Um but like the the world that we lived in was far more, you know, you were far more insulated wherever you were because you didn't have this sort of like, I mean, you had stuff on the internet, you had obviously you had forums. Speaker 2: YouTube was not out in 2004. Speaker 1: That's it. YouTube was 2006, right? So it's like or 2005, late 2005, 2006. And you didn't have like um, you know, the the your phone smartphones weren't out. You weren't being constantly fed this drip of information where people could share things. I mean, back then instructionals, I Speaker 2: access instantly, dude. Speaker 1: That's it. I mean, instructionals, I remember I had them, they were on DVD discs. You know, you had to like, you know, for those of you that are maybe young, you would like, you know, that you would pay for them and they would send you in this thing called mail where they would actually arrive at your doorstep and you you had to wait a couple weeks because Amazon didn't have next day shipping, right? So like, it was just a different world. So it was it was far like when you wanted to learn something, this kind of goes back to it. You think about that like okay, you you wanted to learn something. It was like one of those kung fu movies where you had to go to the guru, the master, the the knowledgeable person. You had to go to them to find the information. It wasn't just like, hey, we've got a whole course outlining everything for you right here. You had to go seek them out. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 1: In person. Speaker 2: Yeah. It was it was it was like a treasure hunt finding that good information. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 2: And collecting, you know, new things and whatever and and now it's like, man, guys are just getting injected with the best stuff day one. And oh, it's a completely different world. Yeah, absolutely. Speaker 3: People are a lot better. I I think they're a lot better. Like blue belts are way better than blue belts were back, you know, 10, 15 just the evolution of it. Um you being a wrestler, but then like developing the Dead Orchard, how did that come about? Like that's totally, you know, you're playing off your back, you know, pretty much Speaker 2: I never said I was a good wrestler. Speaker 3: Well, wrestling was your base, right? I mean. Speaker 2: I you know, okay, again, to kind of like out myself for how ignorant I was to anything Jiu-Jitsu related. Again, I knew nothing, right? And so I actually thought that Jiu-Jitsu meant guard. Mm. Like when I was a kid, I was like, okay, I have guard. Okay, now I'm doing Jiu-Jitsu. Everything else was like grappling or wrestling or or fighting, you know, I didn't know what Jiu-Jitsu truly meant, you know, and so, so that's the thing. I was like, okay, well I got to do Jiu-Jitsu. I'll do this guard work. I'll learn arm bars from my back. You know, and so, you know, just that and and you know, I again, I am flexible and long and so it does fit my style and uh you know, again, like Eddie Bravo, not wanting to get hit in the face for MMA. It's like, okay, cool, like I you know, I wasn't even doing rubber guard back in the MMA days though. I think I had had my last two fights after I'd found 10th Planet. So most of my career, I didn't know rubber guard actually. But, okay, it was when I saw Nick Diaz getting Gogoplata, right? And that's when I was like, oh, okay, well, how do you get a go what's a Gogoplata? How do you do this? And that of course brought me down the Eddie Bravo rabbit hole, you know. But uh, yeah, again, it was just like being a wrestler, I still I thought that to arm bar people from my back was Jiu-Jitsu, you know, that's kind of how it went that way. And then of course you realize, oh, you can do it from back mount and mount and all these things, but the first time I ever saw it was just closed guard, you know. Speaker 3: What was the process of developing that move? Like to actually figuring out that's a move you made or created, how did it come about? Speaker 2: Yeah, so, so I was actually doing what uh, you know, back in the day we'd go, I don't know how familiar I would imagine you're pretty familiar with rubber guard or at least a little bit. Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, some familiarity with it. Speaker 2: Okay, so it's like mission control and then if you can't zombie, you go crackhead control, right? And so from there we we do the pump and then we try to get our deep hook and toss to spider web. Well, when I would do the pump, so again, mission control and then just throw the second leg up, crackhead control. Try to pump those elbows in to get a deep hook. Well, I would just naturally it would just slipped on, honestly, the the the figure four with both arms in. And I actually did it for a while before I realized I was doing something kind of different or like I it was honestly an accident, you know. But then I I was even hitting it in competition, still not fully aware of what I was doing, you know. And then people pointed it out and I'm like, you know, oh yeah, I guess that's okay. And I started putting it together and how it made sense. You know, but but the the the thing is, you know, it's like um the first dead orchard that has been recorded that we're aware of, I believe was in an early UFC. Like way early. And but past that, you know, no so again, it was kind of a one-off, right? And then I started hitting it and other guys were hitting it too, but you know, it's like, have you guys heard the uh the hundredth monkey theory? Speaker 1: Mm-mm. Speaker 3: I haven't. Speaker 2: Okay, it's so it's like you got a bunch of monkeys on an island and there's, you know, I guess this was a real thing, you know, where they had to teach these monkeys like to wash the coconuts or something, get the radiation off or something weird like that, yeah. And so they taught some monkeys and then these monkeys that they taught would go teach the other monkeys and it got to a point once there was like a critical mass, monkeys on another island started washing their coconuts. Right? Or or or I'll put it like this. You know, we used to think that it was impossible to run a four-minute mile, right? Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 2: Okay, until someone did it, two weeks later, Speaker 1: Someone else does it. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 1: Right? And so it's it's like Speaker 2: That's happened with so many records where someone says this is impossible, someone does it and then someone else goes and does it right afterwards. That's right. And I think there's something to just believing that now, oh, I've seen it so now I believe it, but I also think there's something about like a collective consciousness of we can tap into things at the same time. And so once it becomes more in people's consciousness, the more people are going to do it even if it is seems disjointed, right? It's like some dude in Texas was doing it or whatever, you know. And so it's just that I was hitting them against really tough dudes really consistently and just by chance, Eddie, you know, attached my name to it. You know, and then and then and then, you know, what really solidified it, I feel like was uh because you know, it felt weird having a name a move named after me. Like that was just it felt weird and I wouldn't have called it the Dead Orchard. I would have, you know, whatever, but it's an honor. like don't get me wrong. Speaker 1: It's also a good it's a good name, right? So like, you know, with the the naming system that, you know, Eddie has sort of uh, you know, helped create for the the whole things, it's it's, you know, it's it for anybody that doesn't know, the 10th Planet stuff, it sounds bananas, right? You're like, what the hell are they talking about? Crackhead control, you're going to you're going to slap a samurai, whatever, you know, it like sounds ridiculous, but but that orchard, that's like just it's a good ring to it. Speaker 2: It fits, right? Yeah. Yeah, it fits. So anyway, you know, again, I I I I hit it in EBI 2 against Baret Yoshida. And that's when I was like, okay, I'm cool with my name being attached to it. I just I just took out a a legend with this move. And and and I don't know, I believe this must be accurate because Kaio Terra told me this. Um he goes uh he goes, dude, it wasn't just so crazy. I mean, Kaio told me I was the first person to tap Barrett in Nogi. And so that's why it was also like a big deal, you know, and and I didn't really I wasn't aware of that again when it happened. So anyway, after that I felt better about attaching my name to it. I was like, cool, I'll I'll wear this. Speaker 1: Um people were wanting to, you know, discover their game, right? Because you know, when we get started, we understand that eventually if we keep training and you know, all that stuff, typically we're going to develop a certain game style that is going to be ours, right? That it's some sort of hodgepodge mixture of our experience with our coaches' experiences and tutelage and so forth. And then we kind of have this sort of stew that's our own, right? A little bit of this, a little bit of that, here's our style. For you, how much of your jiu-jitsu that is sort of like your your A game, your like go-to stuff is sort of was intentionally added into it. And then how much and again, this is obviously, you know, good luck giving it a super accurate percentage, but just kind of going off of your best guess. How much of it do you think is by sheer accident? Like you came across this move or you found this thing or you went to this seminar and some guy gave you this like, oh crap, this is amazing. How much do you think is intentional? How much do you think is kind of accident for your game? Speaker 2: I I would say much, much more of it is accidental. Yeah. Um, you know, like I I think I think one of the most intentional parts of my game is my Kimura system. That's something I very like early on in my career studied, like studied Kimuras and developed Kimura, I would say Kimuras were like maybe my first well, I mean, besides like maybe rubber guard and and uh the lockdown, you know, but Kimuras, you know, I mean, for sure, that was like a big, big huge part of my game for a long time. It still is. You know, and and so that was intentional, but a lot of it is accidental and you know, like I'll do something and then I'm like, hold on, what just happened? And and then I'll do it again and again and again and then, you know what I mean? It just kind of goes from there and it's it is interesting how information comes to one of the things I I don't have you guys ever read um uh The War of Art by Steven Pressfield? Speaker 1: Yeah. I've it's it's the book I I've read that book like gosh, probably 12, 13 times or something. It's a good book. Short read too. Speaker 2: Game changer, short read, easy, right? Game changer for me though. And and one of the uh one of his one of the parts he says um that you need to like clean your space so that the muse doesn't dirty her gown as she crosses the threshold. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 2: And and so like I feel like if there's anything intentional, it's just creating a a space for inspiration to come through. But inspiration can be totally random. Yeah. But if you don't intentionally set space for inspiration, it doesn't come as easy. Speaker 1: Okay. Speaker 2: So, you know what I mean? Like there's a certain amount of intention, but again, it's like, dude, Jiu-Jitsu travels through us, you know, I mean, we can't it already exists every bit of it. We're just discovering it and integrating it. So we can take very little credit, but um again, we're it's like weird how our bodies are just so made to do it, you know, it's almost sounds like a crazy thought, I know, but like it's like Jiu-Jitsu was a concept and then the human body was made to fit that concept. It works so magically and like a puzzle that it's like, wow, this is uh I mean again, it's it's magical to me really. Speaker 1: Well, I mean grappling, you look at just grappling, like every pretty much every sort of civilization that's existed for the most part had some sort of fighting art, right? And you know, because obviously we have to fight, you know, humans as much as we whatever, fighting is to be to be a human is to fight, to learn how to is part of it, it's part of us, right? And wrestling, grappling is a huge part of that. And you know, you see these different modes of of doing it. And you know, a lot of times if you start to go into different arts, like you can go look at catch wrestling, you can look at traditional uh jiu-jitsu, you can look at judo, you can look at Brazilian jiu-jitsu, you see these different things and you start to see the same moves being overused over and over again. They just change them to the rules, right? Um and to your point about that, like with the accidental thing, I asked that because I've always experienced this and I feel like a lot of the people that I know have too where it's like sometimes the intentionality comes sort of after the accident. So for me, it's like as an example, I might I remember going to a seminar back in like 2000 and maybe it was 2006, 2007 and the coach was there showing a particular type of half guard that I had never learned before, right? And was showing it. I was like, and I used it and it instantly I was able to wrestle up and use my wrestling. I was able to sweep. I was like, oh my god, this just feels really good. This is amazing. So then I started teaching people how to do the three things that I knew how to do from the position. And then I intentionally like went down the rabbit holes finding any half guard stuff I could and studying people that used the position and rolling from position over and over again. And then going back to your thing from the War of the Art, right? Like through the intentional practice, then all of a sudden I started figuring out stuff on by accident again and you're like, what the hell just happened? How did I do that? Hey, stop real quick. Let me go back and figure that out. It's like this sort of uh this dance between, you know, accident, intention, accident, intention, right? Speaker 2: It goes back and forth constantly. Yeah, that's that's a good way of putting it for sure. Speaker 3: Yeah. How do you create that um that training environment to promote that creativity? Like what what does that look like in your training, um or even just in your gym? Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, what you know, one of my things is uh it's actually been a while since I have run a school. I mean, like two within a year and a half. I left uh Seattle almost two years ago, but before every single class or at least 99% of them, I sweep the floors. You know, I hate hair on the floors. You know, and not just the mats, but like, you know, the concrete floors and I so I'd go and sweep and I'd vacuum. And so literally cleaning, you know, that's a huge like intention setter for me. And and it was also a good way for me to just kind of like, you know, shake hands with everyone who's there that day, you know, and kind of make my rounds while I'm cleaning the floor, setting my intention, getting myself ready to go. So, um and and so that's when I'm teaching class and when I'm doing my own personal sessions, exact same thing. I always clean my space first. Now, I I clean the mats afterward, right? But but still, there's always something out of place. There's always something that could be cleaned off the mats in the environment, you know, right now I'm I while I'm building my school here in in Pleasant Grove, I'm just training in my garage. So it's just like, you know, there's constantly a mess to clean up and so I always just clean make it a little bit better, make it a little bit better. And uh yeah, cleaning my space, you know, our our external environment mirrors our internal environment, right? So it's you know, there's science behind like clutter is bad for your brain. It just is. You don't function as well when there's this chaos. And and I'm speaking generally, maybe some people love chaos. I don't know, but I think that order and cleanliness like, man, you look at some of these dojos in Japan and they're just pristine and simple. And it's like, boom, now the work now it can come through, you know. Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I know even for me like, um if I'm in the middle of say some sort of work-related project, some sort of marketing campaign, developing some some new course, whatever it is, like something, a lot of times my like stuff heats up, like like work gets really busy, the pace gets a bit frenetic and a lot of times my office starts to, as you said, mirror that. Like stuff's kind of strewn about. I have papers out, I have stuff going just whatever. And then I know that whenever I get done with something, then I always make this intention of like, all right, I got to clean this we just we just had this particular competition, this thing just launched, this thing for the gym this is finished, whatever it is. Let's clean everything back up. And like clean it all up, tidy it up, make it look nice. I'll take a day out to do that. And I know that how like like you said to your brain part, you mentally feel better. You know, and and you know, I remember back in the day training in gyms where it was just kind of like a kind of a dump. You know what I mean? Speaker 2: We've all seen it. Speaker 1: And there's something about it where it's like it's it's cluttery, it kind of it messes with you a little bit versus you go into a nice, you know, relatively clean, nice gym that's kind of put together. It's um it's relaxing to a degree. It kind of puts you at ease that you can then do whatever it is that you're going to do to your credit to your to what you're saying to your point. Speaker 2: Yeah, no, exactly. I mean, it's uh yeah, you got to have a nice clean clean art studio because we are doing art, you know. So and there's something to be said again, I like, you know, about I actually just read a thing about um like military guys that after a mission because our brain needs closure. So after a mission, you like do your paperwork or whatever, you pack your back, you clean your shit up, you close down what you did too. So there is, I mean, look, it's starting and stopping, you know, if we can learn to really define these things and like uh, you know, what's his name? Josh Wakin on uh that wrote the Art of Learning, right? He talked about um uh what was I saying about about starting and oh, oh, uh it's like he would create these cues that meant he was about to go do his certain thing, right? And so it's like one of mine is to like chew a certain gum. If I'm chewing that gum, that means I'm training. You know what I mean? So like these like triggers. Like what would that be the the not the Pavlov. You know, what's the one guy that didn't experiment every time time he rung a bell, uh he would give his dog Speaker 1: That was Pavlov. Speaker 2: Pavlov's dog, yeah. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 2: Okay, that's what it is. Right. It's just like tricking your brain into getting into that mode, you know. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 2: part of it. Speaker 1: Yeah, you're you're triggering that that you're you're you're there's um what did they call that in like the book by Charles Duhigg? It was called uh basically a habit loop where there's something that initiates triggers the habit to to start, the habit happens and then there's some ending to it that then is considered agreeable or pleasurable and then like you repeat the process, right? Um whether that's chewing gum that then has a great ends with a great training session, you feel great about or you kind of get a hunger pain and you go to McDonald's and you get a burger and you eat your number two and you feel great about it. Um and also too to your to what you're talking about like it's it's nice to have a clear beginning, middle and end in a in a situation because I I looked at your stuff, right? And your gym is like alchemy, alchemical, right? Speaker 2: School of martial alchemy. Speaker 1: Yeah, and you think about that like during sort of traditional like ritual based practices, they talk about them sometimes as like being hermetically sealed. In that moment they're they're closed off into there's a beginning, there's a point where we create heat because heat is where we transform and then there's a cooling down process and then there's a closure to it. And you think about that, we have that every day in the gym when we train, right? You come in and there's some sort of initiation of hey, we're beginning this thing, you begin the thing. And then when you're done with the thing, there's the heat, the training, you're pushing each other, you're being frustrated, you're, you know, sweating, whatever it is, right? And you're experiencing those things that come through that. And then there's maybe ideally you have some sort of process to cool down. Maybe you're talking to your bros, you're cooling down, talking about what happened, maybe you're stretching, whatever it is. And then you have that ending, you're walking out the door, this clear closure of that all done, right? And then you come back and do it again, pop your gum in and get ready for a training session. Speaker 2: You know, and and to bring up hermeticism, that's also how every day and every year goes, right? Like you go, you start with spring or the morning time, it's kind of cool and it's kind of nice, ease into it. The slowly the day heats up, you get to the heat of the day and you go through the thing or you get summertime, right? And so it's like everything, you know, as above, so below, as within, so without, you know, it's just like the day mirrors a year and a year and a day mirror a training cycle, really, if you want to try to make these parallels, which I think you can because that is the process of everything, right? So if we then become intentional about it, we can probably make it stronger and more effective. Speaker 1: Well, because then you can go back to it and going back to the original point, right? Um about intention, you can then go about it with the intention and you can sort of harness that that natural energy, that natural ebb and flow and even sometimes understand it, right? Because if it if we're saying it all mirrors it, there's periods of our day, there's periods of the year, there's periods of a training session that are meant to be coming down, meant to be cooling down, meant to be like, hey, like let's back off, right? And in a society like our own, right? Like we sort of only we only sort of value in some cases one side of that coin, which is the push, the hard, you know, the the the forward intent energy and like sometimes we have to back off and it's bad in Jiu-Jitsu because a lot of times it's like just go, go, go, go, go until you burn out until you get injured versus like, hey, we got to naturally, we have to have this ebb and flow to it. So where there's the hard push and there's the recovery, there's the coming down, letting the mind and the body recover so that we can come back and get after it again, just like there's day and night, there's up and down, you know, and so forth. Speaker 2: I mean, and the the the the Yin and the Yang, right? I mean, just you have to recover as much as you're putting out, right? Essentially. So it's like I don't know, it's crazy how I I wish people like here listen, young young guys out there, learn to take care of yourself when you're 20 and don't wait till you have to take care of yourself because you're now 35, 40, 45, you know what I mean? Like learn that early, but we don't we don't learn to take care of ourselves while we're young and strong. We just only push. Yeah. Right? And so it's just like, dude, get in rhythm with the natural cycles like you're saying and it'll definitely keep you younger longer at least, you know. Speaker 3: It's hard in Jiu-Jitsu because we don't really have seasons like a like a sport. Uh you know, you have a preseason, you have in season, then you have post, you know, post season, things like that and you have kind of the time off to recover and and kind of rebuild, right? And some people I think started have kind of started having more seasons like I'm ramping up for Nogi type seasons and then we're going to do some training. We have some competition coming up. So that's kind of something you have to almost intuitively do, right? And especially as you get older, it's a it's not really you're kind of forced to do it because your body can't keep up, right? Speaker 1: This is something I think about like a lot of people have this, especially if you're especially as you get older, it kind of has to be part of this. Your training and your lifestyle, I don't really consider those two different things, right? Because people sometimes they'll do these things where they'll like they'll put in their two hours of training or whatever it is, you know, a couple times a week, few times a week if they're just sort of a casual about it. And then they'll go home, they'll have poor sleep, boozing up every night, they're eating bad food, like doing all these things and you're like, and then they'll go back to training. like, well, these two things are sort of opposed to one another, right? Like like the things should be also be supporting one another. You know, your training can support your health, but we've got to take care of this, which if you get all this stuff into check, your diet, your sleep, all these things, then you're going to have better training and it's going to it's going to fuel each other as we go through it, right? And I think sometimes when people, like you said, kind of look at it as like, I'm going to get ready for a competition or something or a fight. You see it a lot in MMA where guys completely fall off the wagon. They don't they don't typically have long careers. Like you look at some of the best fighters like like you know, a great example of this is George St. Pierre. The dude was just a consummate martial artist. was always training no matter what. And also too that the nice part is like you're saying then, if if it just becomes a part of your lifestyle where you're always kind of keeping this pace where you can maintain, I mean, I'm sure you've probably had tons of competitions and matches where you probably took them on short notice, but you were just kind of in shape already. So it's like it's not that big of a deal. You're not in peak performance, but you probably go out and do just fine because you're always keeping that that edge sharp, you're always staying in pretty good shape. Speaker 2: Well, I mean, you know, I'll say this, I've I've taken second place in EBI and combat Jiu-Jitsu, I think either five or six times. So Speaker 1: You're the you were the you were the Craig Jones before the Craig Jones, right? Speaker 2: Craig Jones of EBI. Speaker 3: Yeah. Speaker 2: I want to have a match against Craig Jones and whoever loses actually wins because they're the true champion of second place. I'm going to have a fight with Craig Jones to see who's best at uh losing, you know what I mean? I'll be the champion. Speaker 1: That's funny. Speaker 2: No, but you know, it's like, okay, so yes, I have done fairly well. Yeah. Never been the guy. And you know what? I've had to make peace with that because egoically who doesn't want that, right? But I'm I'm down to be second place if I'm living a well-rounded, healthy, holistic lifestyle. You know what I mean? Like I wouldn't I wouldn't trade being the best to be to be lopsided in life. You know? Speaker 1: Because there's a cost to that. Yeah. Speaker 2: There is a cost. Speaker 3: Compromise, yeah. Speaker 2: Exactly. And so it's just like, you know, that's fine. That's fine. I I understand like I'll never be an ADCC champ ADCC champion. I I still might have another shot to become a combat Jiu-Jitsu champion, you know. And uh because I I believe I'm going to do the next one at 155 whenever that comes around, but but uh yeah, I mean it's just like what is worth being the very best? And uh you know, again, we all just have a different path and I've I've come to enjoy and appreciate mine, you know, for sure. Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a lot of guys like where you read their biographies, you know, and you know, you can respect them for some of the stuff that they've done and you can listen to some of the lessons being told, but you know, for me looking at them, I'm like, you know, like I remember reading uh Steve Jobs's biography by Walter Isaacson and I remember like reading it and there's some really cool stuff in it, really interesting ideas and stuff, but you can't help but look at him like, dude, you bailed on your kid. Like you you bailed on your first daughter, right? Like to like, you know, and I don't know because it's like later on in life he really regretted that. You know, and and so to me it's like going back to it, you know, like you're saying, okay, I'm not going to be this thing, but would you want to be an ADCC champion at the expense of, well, I was never there for my kids and my wife and you know, whatever. I mean like that's that's obviously some people can make that exchange if they wish. Um but I'm with you on that regard. I would rather have a lifestyle that I really enjoy versus I climb the ladder and get this thing, you know, that that I thought was going to mean something so much to me when in reality when we look at what is most important to humans and when they do all the studies and what actually builds happiness, um you know, it's not the attainment of this one single goal because there'll always be another goal instead it's the relationships we build, the friendships, family, um having purpose in life, those sorts of things. Speaker 2: That's right. I mean, I've I've been a black belt for 12 years now and eight of it I've been married and and had kids. And um yeah, and so it's like I'm actually it's pretty amazing I've done as well as I have because I've run a school the whole time. The entire time I've been, you know, I I I opened my school uh my first school in uh 2000 and 13, I think. I think 2013 and as a purple belt. So the whole time I've been a teacher, you know, and then most of the time I've also been a husband and a father. So I think it's pretty damn impressive what I've done to tell you the truth, you know, I've never like had a coach. I've had people I've learned from, you know, like Eddie Bravo, he he is he's my teacher, but I've never lived near him. He couldn't coach me per se, right? So everything I've done has been you know, I've never I've never had a coach. I've always done it all myself. I've had a support team and great friends and family and and training partners and all that, but like man, I I've done it all, you know, self-directed and self-motivated and so to take that many second places, yeah, second sucks, it hurts and but but also, I've had again, I'm I've come to be proud of myself for making it as far as I have with the tools that I have, man, you know, I've done pretty good. Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, you're a pioneer in your area, right? So if you if you didn't have a lot of options there, right? Like you sort of you know, you got to work with what you got, but um I I'm sure, you know, you made it easier for a lot of other people who came afterwards, um who had a better better ability to take in information because they actually had a coach to work with. Speaker 2: Yeah, someone actually recently asked me, they said, do you think do you think someone could do what you did? Like, you know, be training in your front lawn, getting good at all these things? And I said, why would they? Why would they want to? Don't. Don't try to do it on your own because I had to do that and I didn't know any better and so it's cool. But like hell yeah, like go learn from people that know more. Go get a coach. Like it it sucked to just or maybe I could have gone further. I don't know. But uh, you know, no one's got to do it alone these days, right? So it's just like, man, yeah, use the resources around you. Don't be stubborn and all that, you know, but Speaker 3: How did you keep those things, I don't want to say balanced, but how did you keep all those things kind of in check? Being able to devote enough time to family, being able to run your school, to learn yourself, you know, to keep yourself in good shape and healthy enough to to train and compete at a high level. How did you try to kind of keep all those things in some type of order? And what was maybe your process for like if something was out of out of order, how did you kind of write the ship? Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, definitely trial and error. you know what I mean? Like I definitely, I mean, look, if you don't balance yourself, you will be balanced by life, right? And so there have been times in my life where I've definitely gotten lopsided in one direction and you know, as soon as something starts to suffer, you know, that that that's it. That's when it's like, okay, okay, hold on, you know. It's like I say this, like energy doesn't lie, okay? And the energy will tell us, okay, this isn't doing good over here. And I know it sounds like maybe metaphysical or something when I say energy, but it's like, you know when your relationship is in trouble. Yeah. You also feel it. You feel it. You can feel it. You can also feel when you're when you haven't had maybe healthy lifestyle choices and so it turns out to a different performance on the mats, right? So, so, you know, actually, um the worst, the low, the lowest low of my life and of my career, I would say was just after COVID, uh it was 2022, I believe. And dude, COVID COVID just messed with me, you know what I mean? It messed with a lot of people. Speaker 1: And Well, you were also in you were in Seattle, right? Speaker 2: I was in Seattle. Dude, I was in ground zero. Speaker 1: So you guys were getting hammered. Like as far as like by the authorities and stuff like that, like Speaker 2: it was crazy. I mean, I had people like old students freaking turned me in for continuing to train, but you know, I had to feed my family, you know what I mean? And whatever, dude, like that was a whole messed up deal anyway, but like it took a it took a toll on me and I was I again was I let myself get out of balance in certain ways. And uh so EBI 19, it was like the return of EBI. But dude, I was not living like a good martial artist at that time and and it showed, you know what I mean? I went out and had like I feel like the worst performance of my life and it crushed me. It crushed me because I loved EBI so much and I was such an honor to be a part of it and to it was the first time I ever lost in the first round, you know what I mean? And against a guy that I feel like I should have beat even though he's really good, whatever. Like Sure. Dude, and and so it was like one of the darkest nights of my life. I was just like so disappointed in myself and all this. And so I I made changes. You know what I mean? Like I saw the writing on the wall and I was like, you know what? Fun isn't better than it doesn't outweigh feeling like shit about a terrible performance. Period, right? And so it's just like, you know what? Dial back on the fun. Get a little more disciplined, be a little more, you know what I mean? But like again, it was like it was just weird in Seattle, like I said, after COVID and just like I saw my I didn't see myself uh I didn't realize that I was doing what I was doing until boom, I got hit in the face with a terrible performance. And then I was like, all right, all right, I see what's up. Time to change. And I did. And so fine. And I learned a lot from it and so that's cool, you know, but it did hurt. Speaker 3: Those are necessary lessons though, right? Those are the ones that wake you up and kind of make you force you to change because that feeling of uh disappointment or just not living up to your potential can kind of haunt you and honestly makes you makes you want to change so much. Speaker 2: That's it. Not living up to your potential, that is terrifying. That's terrifying. That's what terrifies me to be on my deathbed being like, damn it, I didn't really try or I didn't really there's this thing that I loved and I didn't develop it for whatever reason. Like that freaking scares me. And so that's why I do so many things. Like it probably drives my wife crazy, you know, because like you know, I I like I collect hobbies and skills because I feel like I'm here to have as many experiences as I can and learn things and and use my body and use my abilities and develop everything I can. And so like I'm weird about hobbies. Like I do so many things and uh but but I feel like it all actually comes back to Jiu-Jitsu and martial arts for me. Like it's crazy how like I'm learning the guitar right now. I have a really great teacher. And all of a sudden, because I've learned Jiu-Jitsu, I can learn the guitar better and then I see the lesson they they they feed each other, right? And everything does. I'm also like just kind of weirdly obsessed with disc golf. Disc golf is a crazy you think it's just throwing a frisbee. It's not, you know what I mean? Like when you see a dude throw a 500 foot throw or whatever, it's just like, how did you do that? Because I don't know if you guys have ever thrown a disc. Speaker 1: I have. Yeah. Speaker 2: And if you don't do it right, it just it just goes 25 feet and then falls and turns. Speaker 1: It's it's different. It it's deceptively way more difficult. It's just like it's the same thing watching someone hit a golf ball, right? You're thinking I can just go knock this thing and then you you put all your muscle into it and the damn thing just like it it basically bounces off the ground about 25 yards and it just stops there. Speaker 2: Yeah, completely, right? So it's just like it's so fun for me to develop myself and my skills and my body and my mind and everything just kind of feeds each other, you know. Speaker 1: Yeah. I you know, that's one of the things I uh I started writing learning how to ride horses uh some years years ago with my wife because she grew up with horses and so we got into them and or she got me into it. And I remember, you know, very much like first off, it's fun. I don't know about you for as a as an instructor, as a coach, it's like fun to go back and like feel like you're the beginner again. Like, God, I don't know what the hell I'm doing and like I'm like thinking this is how my beginners feel. Like when they first come in, right? Like kind of puts you back into those shoes. And it also it's one of those things where it's not frustration, but it's a feeling where like just we were talking about this at the gym the other day, you can almost you can look at something and even if you don't have an like a really good understanding of what that thing is, you can recognize skill when you see it. When you when you watch someone play a guitar and they're just going up and down court and you just watch their hands move so effortlessly and you hear the music they create, you can't help but say, man, that's amazing, right? Or if you watch a jiu-jitsu person where you watch how fluidly they move and you're like, God, that's beautiful. And then like, you know, if you're a new person coming into jiu-jitsu or riding a horse or playing guitar or whatever, and then you try, you know what your body is supposed to do and you can like, I'm going to make this happen and then you try it and obviously it doesn't happen and you know what skill looks like, you know what quality looks like and you're unable to replicate that and then you have this like friction in the beginning, right? But I remember having that with like when I started riding horses, that same thing where you're like, whatever and then your brain goes back to Jiu-Jitsu because you have that skill that you developed, you're like, oh, this is just going to be the same process that we went through before, no big deal. Speaker 2: Big time. And and like you say, man, it's good to like sucking at the guitar is like, oh, okay, this is how people feel when they come into Jiu-Jitsu and they're like not an athlete and they first start. Like it's it's hard to push through that. And so it is good to be like humbled and remember what it's like to struggle to learn something because now Jiu-Jitsu is so like second nature to me. I have to like bring myself down from the clouds to like reverse engineer and teach people stuff, you know what I mean? Like I'm way out in the ether with it and uh and so I'm like, why is this hard for them? But then it's like I watch someone play the guitar like a master and then I try and like, what? I'm with me. Yeah. Speaker 3: That's so it's tough for sure. And then um what's a weird hobby that maybe you picked up? Because guitar is not super weird, but what's like maybe something that's super weird that uh that you've picked up? Speaker 2: Well, I mean, to to honestly, disc golf to me was weird because when I first saw it, I was like, these nerds, you know what I mean? And then I tried it and I was like, oh, this is incredibly hard. And I didn't think it was cool until again, I saw someone throw a 400 foot freaking laser of a disc and then I was like, wait, that's a weapon. And then once I saw it as like a martial skill actually, that's when I really got into it. But I mean, like, you know, I mean, I think not that anything I do is that weird, but like I do mess around with like all of the weapons, okay? Um so like I kind of one of the weirdest weapons that comes to mind is a is a shepherd's sling, you know, like David and Goliath, right? Like Speaker 1: Oh, okay, neat. Like a sling. Speaker 2: A sling, a shepherd's sling. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Speaker 1: That's neat. Speaker 2: Yeah, and and so that's like a weird and another is a a rope dart. Speaker 1: Bro, those those slings, like I've watched people who like really know how to use them. My god, bro, that's like terrifying because they can just take a rock, sling a and throw it. And I mean, you've got this bullet like going across the the uh the sky and I mean, if it I was a kid, I got my lip sliced in half by a rock, right? So and that was just by a guy throwing it, let alone some dude that's generating some velocity with it. Speaker 2: Dude, and and it's crazy because it's such a simple piece of technology, right? It's like a a rope and maybe a little leather pouch or something like that. And no, you're right, man. I mean, it makes a person be able to throw three times further and three times harder with a third the effort. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 2: You know what I mean? It's it's a wild one. So, but it it's it's not that easy, right? And so that's an obscure one and then and uh a rope dart like um if you guys seen a rope dart like swinging like a heavy ball or a knife on the end of a rope and how you can like swing it and kick it and fling it off your elbow and things. Yeah. So that's something I've developed and gotten decently good at and um I'm better than the average at nunchucks and you know, so whatever, you know, a lot of martial uh things and um uh you know, again, disc golf right now, guitar, but you know, I I like I said, I've got two there was a there was a time I had a student who was a a metal bender, okay? And he would compete in bending metal and and and and tearing uh books in half and all these crazy things. And so for a while and someone stole this. Speaker 1: Was he super yolked up? Speaker 2: Dude, not not really, but so crazy strong and it was just weird how so so you have to qualify like to be on a certain list of metal benders. I can't remember what it's called. It's called like the red or something. But it's like a 6-inch certain strength of steel and you have to bend it to a certain degree to be put in this and there's not very many people in the world who are on this list, right? So for a while, dude, I was like into bending nails and things, you know, and I mean, but that's crazy, but yeah, so I'm always just dabbling to something or another. Yeah. Speaker 3: Interesting. I I've got to ask this because we're all from the 1900s. What was like a in your big into martial arts and Chewy and I've had this conversation. I you're definitely a perfect person to ask. What was like a martial arts movie or actor that kind of influenced you and kind of got you into training and fighting? Speaker 2: I mean, first of all, my my Ninja Turtle art. Speaker 3: Ninja Turtles, yeah, for sure. Speaker 2: Right? Like you know, Speaker 1: Have you ever read the comic books? They're awesome. Like the the original like the black and white comics that were pretty like gritty. Speaker 2: They're dark, man. Yeah, I've I've got a couple of of them, but um I've read the the the last Ronin. Speaker 1: Yes. The last Ronin is dope. It's amazing. Speaker 2: That's good stuff. But yeah, the Ninja Turtles definitely were an influence. I mean, probably all the typicals everyone else probably Bruce Lee. I mean, he he definitely was like one of the guys that I first was aware of, you know, as a as a fighter or a martial artist. Um but but also once I got into MMA, I kind of like for a while I thought martial arts movies were stupid because I was like, oh, MMA, it's real. But then eventually I've come back to be like, no, there's some beauty in the traditional ways and some of the more kind of um you know, not necessarily because we all know that a fight doesn't look like it looks in martial arts movies. Speaker 1: Right. Speaker 2: That's why I didn't like them for a long time. But now I can watch and appreciate the movements because the movements are still true, right? The movements are still real. And it's just obviously kind of for entertainment purposes, but um but yeah, I guess Ninja Turtles and I you know what I loved was um this is a weird 90s reference. Um what was it called? Warriors of Virtue or something? Speaker 1: I don't know. Speaker 2: like kangaroo martial artists. Speaker 1: No. Speaker 3: I've never seen that one. Speaker 2: Okay, all right, all right. Speaker 1: I'll look that up. Speaker 2: Warriors of Virtue. I think that's what it was called, yeah. Kangaroo ninjas. Speaker 3: Yeah, I was definitely a Jean-Claude Van Damme kind of fan, you know, I was like, oh, dude, that guy over there on the chairs doing the splits. Yeah. And then his his uh his trainer, what do you call him? Shidoshi or whatever. Yeah, he would like pull on the rope and like make him do the splits and I was like, man, that is awesome. Speaker 1: Oh, Warriors of I remember I remember this. Is it Warriors of Virtue? Yeah, I remember this movie. I remember seeing the like the the pictures of it. I never saw it, but I remember like I'm seeing all the like the the the the costumes and stuff. I'm like totally. And this is like classic 90s stuff. You've got like these animals. Speaker 2: Power Rangers and Ninja Turtles and all these sorts of things. And then there's another called Sidekick, I think. Speaker 1: Yes, Sidekick. Yeah, yeah. With Chuck Norris. Speaker 2: Chuck Norris, right? So Speaker 1: It's a great one. Speaker 2: Yeah, so and I like as a kid, I I probably I wasn't really allowed to watch a lot of the good martial arts movies. I was just watching kid martial arts movies. Speaker 1: Three ninjas, that was another one. Speaker 2: Three ninjas. Oh, yes, Surf ninjas too. Speaker 1: Oh, Surf yeah. Speaker 2: There's both. Speaker 1: Okay. Speaker 2: Three ninjas and Surf ninjas, yeah. Speaker 1: That's right. I was like, that's not the same movie. Speaker 2: No, no, different. Speaker 1: Different. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 3: That's awesome. Speaker 2: Yeah, I can send for martial arts cinema. Speaker 3: Yeah. How has um uh Nathan, how's your training changed? You've gotten older? Like gotten maybe smarter and more wise with your training. How have you Speaker 1: Well, you talked about earlier about keeping a certain pace. Speaker 3: A certain pace. Yeah, like I mean, just but but outside of just Jiu-Jitsu, what are you doing to keep your body together? Speaker 2: I mean, you know, one thing I don't do is I honestly don't really ever I never burn myself out. You know what I mean? Like I never push myself to the point of exhaustion because I got stuff to do. So I something that's really helped me is always leaving like 20 to 25% in the tank. You know what I mean? Not just fully depleting myself or pushing myself too hard at any point. Um also like you know, I think I probably softened up as I get older. I like I I've been rolling with some guys that like I used to not take it easy on people ever. And I would just it was the goal to see how many times I could tap you out in a round. And so now I don't even feel the need to tap people out the same way in training, you know what I mean? Because also, right, it's like most injuries happen when you're trying to not get tapped or trying to tap someone or or go too hard, right? And so, so I mean, you know what? I think some of the best training that I get actually for my cardio and just overall skill development and everything is actually just not training with submissions. Like I can roll, dude, if you can roll nonstop for however long and not because a lot of times you're going for submissions, that it makes it makes people seize up and stop and hold, but it's like, yo, we're not trying to submit each other. Let's we're trying to hit as many moves as we can, transition as much as we can because Jiu-Jitsu, it's about pattern recognition, right? Ultimately. And to recognize patterns, you need lots of data to kind of draw from. And so when you're having a lot of like stagnant holding, I feel like you're not taking in as much data. Now, maybe you're taking in different data, but I like the movement and the connections and the transitions. And so, um man, I get some of my very best. It's it's best for cardio, it's the lowest impact and it helps me connect things the most. So, you know, of course I can like I can always slap on a submission, but it stops. It it stops the thing and it makes it reset. It's like, no, let's move, move, move, move, move, move, move, fluid, fluid, fluid, fluid, fluid, you know, low impact. It keeps the injuries down and you know, I mean, it keeps me sharper personally. So instead of like making every day the toughest rolls and no, it's like now it's more about like, dude, let's play and flow and move and and so again, that's just like a just a different more consistent way to train. Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember talking about the idea that there's that saying that some people throw around like every day Pohada. I'm like, not for me, bro. Not not for me. Like not every day needs to be that way. Um with your rolling, do you like like, you know, if you kind of have a preference, do you like to go in and just say we're just going to do a bunch of rolls, full rolling and sort of maybe give yourself certain goals and things like that during like an open rolling session or do you like to um dial in and have like very specific situations that you can work on towards something you're you're doing? Like do you have any preference or sort of uh thing that you prefer when you're rolling? Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I guess it depends on the day because there are times when I'm like really where I can't sleep at night because I'm thinking about a certain system and and I just that's all I want to do and I'll like pass up nine different things just to play this other game for a while. So that definitely happens. I don't necessarily know if I'm like super intentional with it. It's just that that's what I'm thinking about. So I guess I am intentional, you know, whatever. It's just how it happens for me. And then sometimes sometimes I just let let it go or like, you know, sometimes I'm just like giving people work too, right? It's like a lot of times it's not just about me and my training right now. You know, it's like who I'm trying to develop my guys because because I haven't had a school in a while, I've been training in a very different way than I've ever trained, which is just like with one or two dudes, but these dudes that I'm going to be working with in the future or that are going to be a part of my school. So right now, I'm getting them caught up on all my stuff. I'm giving them as much information and getting them on the same page as much as I can. And it's actually really helpful for me because you know, I'm I'm teaching things that uh maybe I haven't taught in a while and it just kind of is like a good refresher course for me. So, yeah, again, it it just depends on the day and uh but there are days where I'm like, all right, let's see how many foot sweeps I can hit, you know. That that's been that's been a new a new thing for me within the last couple years, you know, I'm I'm a J-Flow certified instructor, right? And um so I get to go and work with him a decent amount and I've been studying him for for a decent time now. And his style of training and and judo actually in general, um that's something I've I've focused a lot on and it has been something I feel that I people need to just look into, you know what I mean? You got to do it because judo judo's much more it's much older as far as like how established and step by step by step. It's broken down. Jiu-Jitsu is still kind of like splatter painting, right? Which I love, you know. But judo, they know the way and it works and it's step by step. And so learning judo has made my training way more um uh I'm blanking on the word right now, but just consistent. It's taught me how to lower my impact, have more control. It's more sustainable. Like training adding the judo concepts of how to break fall and how to be smooth and how to um go with the throw instead of try to constantly resist the throw. Yeah. Actually makes it way better, you know, and lower impact and safer for everybody. So, you know, that that's been a game changer for me for sure. Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember reading uh there was a book called The Pajama Game and uh you know, this this guy's writing this book, you know, he's a he's a European guy and he's, you know, getting into judo and stuff and he was talking interviewing all these different like, you know, Olympic judoka and things like that throughout the book and he sort of shares their stories and he was relaying a story that he'd heard from a guy who had like left, I forgot what European city he'd left, but left the European city and went to Japan for so many months to train in Japan and um you know, he talked about sort of this it was interesting that sometimes the, you know, they would kind of the Japanese guys are like see the the Westerner and they kind of test them a little bit, but he said that when you would start rolling with them, you know, when you start doing Randori with them, right? He said that when you would throw them, they were they would be willing to try stuff, willing to do whatever and when you would throw them, they would just sort of go with it. And like it wasn't like because he said they wouldn't resist it and like get rigid. They would like if they were getting thrown, they would just go with it. Speaker 2: They flow with it. Speaker 1: Right, exactly. And he talked about this sort of flowy nature where, you know, they might be this sort of fiery competitor or whatever, but in the training room, they would be very loose to a degree when they're they're trying different variations of throws or when they're getting caught in stuff, they're going with it versus this resisting, right? And and that's important like you're saying like when you're throwing, there's a certain point where you you're better off just kind of going with it, especially in the training room, competition's different, but going with it in the training room and just even and you can do this the same thing with Jiu-Jitsu, right? Because like you're saying, when do we typically get injured? Maybe you're doing that butterfly sweep and you're really flexing that quad trying to get that sweep and you're at that point of maximum extension and you twist something or you know, someone's got you in an arm bar and you're like, no, it's not going to happen and you you know, tear a peck or something. Sure. Uh you know, so kind of having that go with it nature versus fighting for everything tooth and nail. Speaker 2: Yeah, and and so that's been different to answer your question, you know, in my older age, I'm like, all right, we can just it doesn't always have to be hammer versus hammer, you know what I mean? And and and so uh yeah, I mean like wrestling, right? Like wrestling is just boom, boom, boom, boom, that's what it constantly is. I feel like judo's the opposite, right? They're both grappling sports of course and but but yeah, learning to just well, I mean, Uke means to accept or to receive the technique. And so it's like learning when to concede and go with it, that's actually that's a skill and it keeps everyone safer for sure. Speaker 1: And it takes a while to to like mentally do that because if you're a competitor, if you're you know, you you want to fight for everything, right? And then it's this point you're like, you're going to yield and just give in and and be okay with it and not let it bother you, you know, whereas you spend so much time as like if you're a young competitor, a young athlete, working yourself up to be good at something. I think sometimes that's kind of where you reach that where you kind of get to a place where you're comfortable in who you are, where you're at, you're like, okay, I'm doing pretty good. that then you can let those things happen and not not be bothered by them so much because you're your ego is sturdy enough to to take to adjust to it and not be so uh upset that you lost one round in some random roll of some random day in a year. Speaker 2: I mean, look, man, my ego is as in charge as it's ever been right now. You know what I mean? Like I have I haven't killed my ego. My ego I still Speaker 1: Everybody has an ego, you can't get rid of it. Speaker 2: You can't get rid of it. That's the thing. And and it really but so and and because everyone has it, it is real. It's like we all know the joke. Like let's roll, let's flow roll and then you're instantly fighting. So that's why I say I'll have a lot of training where I'm like, don't we're there's no submissions going on right now. That way I can chill out, they can chill out and now we're doing work instead of fighting. And you got to fight sometimes. You for sure do. You for sure got to fight sometimes. But probably the the like dude, I I swear every time I've I've like wrestled or rolled with like Eastern European or Russian dudes like those guys in my experience actually they they don't fight. They just they just go for a long time and they find this consistent pace and they're not just like I feel like Speaker 1: I thought you were going to go the other way with it. Speaker 2: Well, for sure. I mean it's like this even. I I wanted because you know, I know how to strike. I can kick and punch and knee and elbow and all that. And I was in Thailand. I was like, well, I'm going to do a tie fight because I know how to fight. And then I found out that there was like kind of like etiquette and culture around how tie fights are done. And I realized like, oh, we Westerners, we go over there and we just want to fight. And that's not really Muay Thai. You know what I mean? And so I find it's the same with in grappling like, dude, American Western, we want to fight each other. Yeah. And then I find again, it's been my experience with with Eastern European and Russian like they aren't so interested in just fighting every round. They just want to like find a good, solid, strong pace and and go and go and go and go. And so I I don't know, I feel like there's a lot of value in that for sure. Speaker 1: Yeah, there's lots of like if you look at some of the Eastern block countries um in the wrestling, you know, which have traditionally been just powerhouses of wrestling. Um if you watch some of their training, sometimes it looks very different from say the American training where the American training is really hard, going hard. Speaker 2: wrestling room where they're just Speaker 1: Yeah. Just like you know, probably and I think it's actually gotten better now. Like you're starting to see, obviously, it's still a it's still a hard ass training session for the average person, but you know, you um compare maybe say like uh Dan Gable's Iowa room and it's heyday during the dynasty years to like say Penn State's room, you know, and and you know, you you listen to the Penn State people talk and they're like, you know, what do you think about I'm just having so much fun here. Whereas you go back and look at the videos of the guys training with Dan Gable and they're just Speaker 2: fun. Speaker 1: So they're in hell. I mean, they're in hell every single day and everybody was always injured. You know, like by the end of the the the end of the year, everybody's taped up and banged up versus, you know, you look at Penn State's room, they're like, man, these guys and they're in their dynasty years. I mean, they're killing it, right? And somehow they their guys get to the end of the season and they're still healthy and strong and everything else. Speaker 2: And having fun. Speaker 1: Yeah, having fun and you know, that reflects the training and you see a lot of those those old Eastern block countries where you watch them wrestle and they're not killing each other every rep. They're they're getting a good they're at a good pace, but they're never like well, not never, but in a lot of the average training sessions, they're not taking it to that next level of intensity or if they do, the the amount of reps that they're going to do at that level, the amount of time they're going to spend in that intensity is going to be less um than say like some of the American countries and things like that. Not saying it's wrong or right or whatever, I'm just saying to your to your point, right? You you see that I've seen that a lot with like the Eastern block countries back in the day. Speaker 2: You know, I I remember learning, you know, like to not ever, if you have an RNC, say on a guy, if you're squeezing 100%, you're doing it completely wrong, right? And so my percentages of they started it starts skyrocketing when I'd go from 10% strength to 20 to 30 to 40 to 50. If I was passing 60%, then that meant my technique was wrong. And so the idea is like, how long how long can you hold on with 100% power versus how long can you hold on with 60% power? Way, way, way longer. Right? I mean, oh my gosh, right? So that's like these guys training that more consistent 60, 70% pace, you can train more hours. Plain and simple. That's just how it's going to be. You know. Speaker 3: Well, yeah, and then the injury part of it too is very important. You know, the the more fatigue you are, the research shows that, you know, the higher the more fatigue, the more likely you are to get injured, the more susceptible you are to injury. So if you're going to a pace where, you know, maybe 70, 80% where you can maintain that pace and still be fresh and still have your reaction time and and not be because I mean, exhaustion is not just physical, it's mental too. I mean, if you have a really tough round, I mean, you could be really mentally exhausted. It's just like lifting heavy weights, right? You get that neurological, you get like neurologically you get fatigued. Your brain gets tired after if you're lifting something really heavy in the gym. So I think that's super important for just, you know, you can't max out all the time, right? You have to kind of have those, you know, go in a good pace that's comfortable and your body can maintain and sustain. Speaker 2: Yeah. You have to be able to max out when you need to. Sure. That shouldn't be what we do only, right? And in my younger days it was different. So yeah. Speaker 3: Well, you're more resiliency, you know, when you're young, your body can withstand more punishment, more abuse and you kind of as a young person or younger person trying to achieve something great, you're going to push yourself to the limit. Speaker 2: Sure. Speaker 1: But even like a technical standpoint, right? Like I I like if I remember this has happened several times where if I can't catch a submission what I would sort of use the word clean, like if I can't like for a choke is an example, there are times where yeah, I could face crank you, I can really start to rip your face to get under your neck, but if I if I in the gym, if I can't catch it clean where it slides under perfectly, I timed it perfectly through the transition and I can like you said, apply that with minimal strength, I typically let go of them. But like when I go to competitions, I have a pretty high submission rate. And I think it's kind of the idea that I remember, you know, I don't know how true this is, but this is what like my first boxing coach told us. He would like have us do these drills sometimes with our hands in a really high guard and he was like, well, this way when you're when you're tired, you'll fall down to be where you need to be. Um which maybe that's not true whatever, but that same idea where if your technique's better and more precise in the training room, then when you're going full speed and you're going to a competition, if it's not perfect, you know, if it's not exactly as clean as it is in the, it's still going to be pretty damn close and it'll be good enough to get the job done versus if you're getting away with sloppy technique in the gym, sometimes you go to competitions when things get a little sloppier in those transitions and then you you miss out on it because you're not holding yourself to a higher standard with your technical abilities. Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I think that's true actually. I think that um like in the case of grappling, like when I'm drilling something, I will kind of exaggerate the entire movement because when you go faster and you're tired, that movement becomes slower, therefore or or or smaller. So now it falls just right. You know what I mean? So yeah, I think to overdo it sometimes is how it's got to be and then faster and harder just makes it kind of where it should be. Speaker 3: Yeah. What do you um as far as starting a new gym, like what have you learned in your past experiences, past gyms you've run and maybe how are you going to make this one a little more unique or different than the other ones? Speaker 2: Well, this one's is is definitely going to be more different than anything I've done because I have uh I have business partners and I have people who are much smarter on the financial and administrative end than I am, you know, like I I before in Seattle, for example, I basically was a one-man show. I had guys helped me out from time to time and all this, but like or or let me say this, when I had other people helping me out when I didn't know how to do that job, like I had guys like doing like Zen planner for me because I never I didn't want to learn how to do it. I was like, you guys do it, whatever. And then those people would leave and then I'd be like, I'd have to just find someone else to do it. Now I know what I'm doing, so now I think I can delegate better and now you see what I mean? Like not just be in the dark about how to run my business. Like once I finally like started running it like a businessman and not just a jiu-jitsu guy, things got way better and way easier and smoother. That being said, now that I know that, now I have guys that can do that job so that I can focus more on being a teacher and a coach and and all of that. Um we're also, you know, we one thing I'm super stoked about the school is we have we we got spring loaded floors, right? So we're going to have that extra cushion. That's going to be huge for me just for and everyone just they don't mitigating impact, you know, and and all that. That's that's going to be really huge. But um Speaker 1: How are you guys setting up your spring loaded floors? Because there's different ways to do it with foam and everything else. I've seen people use tires. How are you guys doing it? Speaker 2: Yeah, well, so because I have good business partners, we're able to go kind of get the best we we're getting the gymnastics spring loaded floors, like actual springs. Speaker 1: Okay. Speaker 2: Yeah. So that's actually the first time I ever like so when I found my striking coach way back in the day, he had gymnastics connections. So he had spring loaded floors. So that was like besides being a wrestler, a lot of my training was on spring loaded floors in the beginning and I got spoiled, you know what I mean? Because they're so nice. And then you get on like inch and a half mats right on concrete, that sucks, you know. So, uh so yeah, again, we're we're getting spoiled with like the kind of the best of the best as far as that goes. I mean, this is going to be a very nice facility and so that's another thing. It's like I feel like a lot of guys and this is what I had to do multiple times building up my gyms throughout the years. I had to like kind of start small and slowly like grow into it. We're kind of able to go all out and just we have a really this facility is going to be beautiful, showers and bathrooms and just just everything off the bat. So, so I just feel like uh, you know, we're going to just get started and go right to work and and also now knowing what I know about training people and and understanding that like competitors are the smallest amount of students. You know what I mean? Like before for me it was all about competitors and having the toughest guys and having the toughest gym. Now I'm like, you know what? I actually for sure, I want to build some dope competitors if that's what they want, but like I'm really excited to teach non-competitors martial arts and uh and sustainable training. I think now my training is going to be and my teaching and how I run my classes is just going to be way more sustainable and cleaner and kind of with like a little bit more direction and intention because I'm just older and smarter now, you know what I mean? So it's not just going to be about fighting, it's going to be about like, let's teach these people from the ground up like how to walk and step and slide and fall and stand. I'm excited to teach the the very most, you know, beginner basic stuff because I've I've learned that uh that's where that's the most important stuff. You know what I mean? Like look, break falls save more lives than knowing how to do an arm bar does. Speaker 1: Yeah. Break falls have saved me a couple times in like like regular life. I've like there was one point even last year we had a really bad ice storm come through and I remember I was taking the trash out and I slipped and as I slipped, like I broke fall on like concrete, but my and I kept my my chin tucked, right? So my head's not banging off the ground. Speaker 2: You're not reaching back to post. Speaker 1: That's it. Even and my arm was red, but there was no problems with my back, but but after that, I remember looking over and like my if my head had snapped back, it would have slammed right over top of a ledge. So my neck would have went over top of like a I mean, it would have it could have hurt me really bad. I was like, damn, that saved me right there. I'm glad I knew how to like actually do a good proper break fall. Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, you know, and that's what I'm saying. We all want to learn how to do flying arm bars. But it's like, bro, you don't know how to fall. And it's like crazy to me that I spent so much of my career like actually scoffing break falls. Like I was a wrestler. Like, dude, you hit the ground hard like a man and you don't and you be quiet about it, you know. Speaker 1: We also turn to your belly in wrestling, right? So like as you're getting taken down, you kind of turn to your stomach, which you don't do in, you know, whatever, so. Speaker 2: For sure, for sure. But athletically and martially, break falls are so rich. Like they can just I I say that break falls, this is what I found again only recently or within the last five years. Uh break falls are the price of entry for higher learning. No one wants to do it. No, they're they're boring at first, but but then once you learn how to flip, fly, fall and be unafraid, all of a sudden like things really open up to you. And so and and it teaches incredible amounts of body awareness and proprioception, right? So it's like if I could talk to Nathan 20 years ago, I'd be like, bro, study judo, study Aikido, learn to be a breakfall master. Make falling your friend. Make it don't be afraid of it at all. In fact, learn how to go with it and you can do some really cool things, man. Like ninja shit, you know. Speaker 1: Well, that's uh it gives you a sense of confidence, right? Because it's like if you go spar, I remember when I first started learning how to box, like what gave me the most confidence with being able to go into a sparring session and just kind of go for it was when I learned how to like relax and roll with the punch. You know what I mean? Where like because you know, in the beginning you I was really stiff. I don't know about you like I'd get really stiff and then the next I'd feel it my neck, my jaw. When you learn how to sort of relax a little bit and just slip the punch a little bit, even if it hits you, it doesn't hit that same impact. Like then you go into a sparring session like, I'll be all right. You know, if you know that you can go for judo and you can go for these takedowns and these throws and if you get taken down, you're like, it's no big deal. I know how to fall properly. You can go into it with a lot more confidence um to go for it, right? To actually go for the the the thing that you want. Speaker 2: Yeah, big time. I mean, look, I've pulled guard many times, okay? But I think a lot of times people pull guard because they do not want to be on their feet because they don't know how to be on their feet. And so I would say pulling guard is fine as long as you also know how to not pull guard. And then we get a choice and not make it just your default, right? But I I think I think the the Jiu-Jitsu world at large is is definitely missing that. I know that I was for a long time because it was all about the ground game and just going to the ground and getting the submission, so who cares? Let's sit down. Also, as a martial artist, I I don't want to ever be lopsided, out of balance. And so again, it's like for the sake of martial arts, I want to learn how to be absolutely as proficient standing, moving around as I do submitting someone on the ground. I mean, it is all one thing to me and it isn't separate. Uh which I would have learned that sooner for sure. Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a lot. I mean, I didn't I remember my first Jiu-Jitsu tournament, I didn't know any takedowns. Speaker 2: Of course. Speaker 3: And I go in there and I'm like, Speaker 1: This wasn't at my this wasn't at my gym by the way, so just Speaker 3: Okay. Maybe I knew something. I don't but I remember going out there and it was my first match ever and grabbing my opponent and we're just grabbing each other and I was like, what the hell am I going to do from here? Speaker 2: And just lock horns and you just kind of like sit there. Speaker 3: It's a typical white belt stuff, right? I think I ended up I think I ended up getting mounted or something and I don't know. It was bad. But you know, that's that's just how it works. And I think that's something that's a good point. That's not the exciting stuff that people see. That's usually not the exciting stuff that brings people into training. They they see an arm bar or see somebody hit a guillotine or something, rear naked choke in an MMA fight and like, I want to do that thing. Speaker 2: That's right. Speaker 3: I want to know how to put somebody out, you know, and and learning like, hey, what's what's a good way to keep yourself safe? What if you fall or how to fall? Like that's stuff that's like the you know, exciting, not exciting stuff. Speaker 2: Exactly. We all want flying arm bars, but but I would say the most important aspects of martial arts is um you know, striking defense, which can also be distance management, okay? But but basically footwork, right? Because because we're all walking around, we all start standing, right? So footwork, right? is probably the number one because that's what we do the most. And then learning how to fall and not get hurt, and then learning how to stand up quickly and efficiently, and then this is when I go back to striking defense, learning how to not get hit in the face. And I mean literally pairing and rolling and all that instead of instead of just distance management. So that's why they're kind of a little bit similar between the footwork and the and the striking defense, but you know, I have a ground and pound uh defensive system that I've been developing over the years because of MMA and combat Jiu-Jitsu. And you know, because you hear guys say, intelligently defend yourself like in MMA. No one knows what that means. No one actually knows how to intelligently defend themselves actively against a striker, a ground and pound. But this is something that I've actually put a lot of work into and I have intentionally developed it. And uh so so that is something like these are the four things that everyone needs to know. Now, once you know these four things, now let's get into flying arm bars and all the other cool stuff too, right? For sure. I I'm all about it. Like I want the crazy shit. I'm a 10th Planet guy. Like let's be as crazy as we can be. Like that's partially the goal for me. But not before we learn these most important things of of of life. You know what I mean? Because because even non-martial artists, you walking down the street, dude, someone might try to smack you in the face. We've all seen those videos where you're just standing there and someone just gets cold cocked, dude. It's like, so between awareness and then knowing how to not get hit and all these sort of things, man, everyone needs that. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 3: Martial arts is a life skill, you know, it really is. It's like it's up there with it's like so that's why I want my kids to do it. That's why most people do it. They want to learn how to defend themselves. I think it's really important for for any individual to be able to do that. Speaker 2: I would say it helps live a a better life because if you feel confident in yourself and less afraid, then you get to open up a little bit, maybe live a little bit more. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 3: When uh Nathan, when's your gym going to be open? Where is it going to be at? Speaker 2: Um gosh, you know, I thought we were going to be open by November, last November. So we're already behind as far as I'm concerned, but um I'm right now I'm I'm really projecting May 1st. By May 1st, we should be fully operational, ready to go. And we're here in Pleasant Grove, Utah. It's about 45 or so depending on traffic minutes south of Salt Lake. And uh just like 15, 20 minutes north of Provo, which is where BYU is. Okay. So, yeah, it's a nice little area and we're we're right off the freeway. I mean, easy to get to and um it's going to be a super clean, nice facility. I'm crazy excited for it. Speaker 1: Why did you go to Utah for like why did you go to Utah after leaving Seattle? Like what what made you leave Seattle? Why did you go to Utah? Speaker 2: Yeah, actually, I was I was in Seattle for I was in Portland. I opened 10th Planet Portland and then I met my wife and I chased her up to Seattle. And so I was there for six or seven years. And then um I'm sure some Gen Z kids going six, seven somewhere. But uh I couldn't help it. Uh so and then Speaker 1: And it's funny like the the the detest of like all of us old guys were like, what? Like I totally understand like we had our little like inside jokes, but they all kind of had a meaning because I was talking to a young kid, I was like, what does this mean? They're like, it doesn't mean anything. It just it's like Speaker 2: It doesn't mean good or bad or nothing. Speaker 1: It just means nothing, right? Versus like, you know, if we were like like when our teacher would say 69 when we were a kid, we were snickering because but we know what that means. Like that has a meaning behind it, right? It's like it's a sexual thing. Speaker 2: 67 is not. Yeah, it's ridiculous. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 2: But so so I was over Seattle. I was over I mean like man, I miss my team there. I had good people, but Seattle just wasn't my place overall, you know. Um so I actually moved because I had some my wife's mom was born in Alabama. I we moved to Alabama, lived there for a year. And that also just it didn't it didn't fit. It didn't it didn't stick. It wasn't my place. I had to readjust. Nothing worked out the way I intended to when I went out there. Um but I was actually born here in in Salt Lake City, Utah. And so I've got just deep roots here. I've got some of my oldest friends live here and and a lot of family. So it was like, okay, let's pivot again and I moved across the country twice in a year. That was crazy. That's one thing I've had to like I've stepped back from competing over the last year because I've literally moved across the country twice and it was rugged. Um but but again, Utah, it just between just like the support system, it's kind of weird like it's a full circle thing. I was born here and I left when I was just a baby and then now I'm coming back. And so I don't know, I don't know why that loop is closing in that way, but uh it feels good to be here. I mean, it's a good fit for us and I mean, we're we're going to dig in a little bit, you know, and I'll be here for a while. Speaker 1: That's great. And then you have that support family support system for your for your kids and everything else too, which is nice, right? Speaker 2: It's huge. Speaker 1: Um yeah. So and then you've got a match coming up, right? So I know you said you've been kind of talking about not being into the competitive realm for a little bit, but you have a match coming up? Speaker 2: I do have a match coming up. It's Grapple Worlds. It's uh in uh just north of London, Oxford area or something. Speaker 1: Cool. So you're going to go across the pond over to the UK. Speaker 2: That's right. Going over there. And a guy I can't think of Cal something. I got my phone on airplane mode right now so I can't even look him up, but seems like a tough dude. I mean, he's an MMA fighter. He's he's been around, he's a black belt. So uh and and when when this promotion was asking me if I wanted to do this, I was like, yeah, I just I want an exciting match. I I just like give me someone who's not going to just go and sit down. He can pull guard, that's fine. But also, I don't want a guy, you know, we all know there's people who only pull guard. And honestly, I hate that I hate that style of Jiu-Jitsu right now. It's actually I guess I'm becoming an old man or something. Speaker 1: You you you're trying to get those foot sweeps in, bro. You want to test them out. Speaker 2: Yeah, I see that you can't get foot swept if you sit down, right? But uh yeah, I mean, again, and and maybe I'll pull guard. I don't know, but what I wanted was not a guaranteed guard puller. I want someone that we're going to go out there and just like move around and get crazy, you know what I mean? And I think this guy's going to do that. So I'm excited to go back out there and like I love to compete, you know, I also hate to compete, but that's also why I do it. But uh, you know, I'm I'm stoked to get back out on the mats and and go test my blade because that's what I'm doing, man. Every single day. I train every day and I'm always just sharpening and sharpening and sharpening and sometimes you got to be like, all right, let's see how good I am at sharpening this sword here. Speaker 3: Testing yourself, yeah. What do you hate about competition? Speaker 2: I mean, I mean, I don't know if anyone actually loves it. I mean, it's it's scary, it's hard, it's like not comfortable, you know. There's nothing comfortable about it, you know. So, but but again, that's why I do it because like if I if something scares me, now I have to do it. It's like the most annoying thing, you know what I mean? So that's it, you know, and it's like also, you know, uh I I don't think I'll be doing it, you know, I I only do I do have a limited lifespan in competition. So I want to, you know, get it in as much as I can and you know, also, you know, I I still I I actually still am again, testing myself and and I want to practice these things. So that that I've been developing because I haven't really competed since I've put in like all this judo that I've been doing. been doing a lot of judo. So it's like I've got a whole new version of myself coming out that that no one has seen and not even me really. So, you know, it's just going to be fun to like kind of get to know myself again, right? It's like that's what it really all is. I learn about myself so much when I compete and uh I would say that's important, right? To to to know thyself. Speaker 1: Yeah. You you you find out a lot about yourself out there and um I don't know if if you how you think about this. I feel like uh it's like I'm always uncomfortable before the matches and stuff and then once I'm actually out on the mat, the discomfort leaves. Speaker 2: That's right. Speaker 1: And then there's like a different person that takes over, right? Because like I you know, at the gym I always, you know, I never go 100% because I you know, I care about my training partners. But then in the match, it's not that I'm trying to hurt anybody, but like I get to go 100%. Like 100%. Like you just Speaker 2: You're allowed. Speaker 1: It's like a a different person takes over and then it's almost like after I'm done, I'm like, I want to go back and watch the video. What did that guy do? I want to go see what he did, right? Like because it's like I do all kinds of stuff sometimes that just happens by improvisation while you're out there in the match. Speaker 2: Sure, you know, and and you know, one thing I I've done throughout the years that's really helped me is because we all do feel those nerves until you slap and go and now you're in the moment. But like what I'll do during a match, especially if I find myself in a a bad spot, uncomfortable position, I'm not liking what's going on. I'll take a moment to just kind of like gather myself and be like, no, dude, you love this. This this oh no, no, this is sick. Oh yeah, you do love this. That's why you're here. So you're right, there are two parts of me. There's the part of me that is nervous and freaked out or whatever. And then there's the part of me's like, no, dude, like this is dope. Like fighting is fun. Speaker 1: That's right. That's right. Speaker 3: It's a it's the hardest part, you know, just the waiting and the anticipation and the the moment getting there and then once you're there, it's Speaker 2: all good. Speaker 3: You just let it go. Speaker 2: It's really fun, you know, and now you're win or lose, whatever, you you have a good time afterward and you know, you meet some cool people. like it's always dope and and so that one of my favorite lines from one of my favorite poems is uh it's Rudyard Kipling's if and it's if you can meet with triumph and disaster and treat those two imposters just the same. Speaker 1: That's such a good poem. It's like Speaker 2: Oh yeah. Speaker 1: You can look it up. If you guys have never read it, it's a great poem. Speaker 2: Please do. It's one of the best, yeah. Speaker 1: He he wrote that for he wrote it for his son, right? Speaker 2: Yeah, I probably. Speaker 1: I I I think I was reading about it like he wrote that for his son. It was like a poem like passing it down to him like here's just some life wisdom for you wrapped wrapped up in a poem. Speaker 2: I guess it does end with you will be a man, my son. So it suggests that. But but yeah, no, I mean, look, dude, that's that's what I'm saying. It's like the best life advice, like that right there is the the tenants of life in that poem, you know what I mean? If you can do that, you will live a good life. You know. Speaker 3: That's awesome, man. That's a beautiful way to end it. Um Speaker 1: I agree. Speaker 3: Yeah, and Nathan, so if people want to get a hold of you, see what you're up to, see your gym, where can they do all that? Where can they find you and kind of see what you're up to? Speaker 2: Yeah, Instagram is the best place to find me. Um Nate Orch 10P, that's my handle. So uh check it out and again, we're going to be open, you know, next couple months. For now, I'm just getting my training on in my garage and uh you know, making do, but um we're we're we're getting ready to I'm getting ready and I'm so excited to bring my my new all the new things I've been developing over the last couple years to a new team out here. So it's going to be awesome. Speaker 1: That's cool, man. Awesome, brother. Well, appreciate you for being on, man. Good luck with the the gym opening. I know it's a big deal and good luck with the match coming up and hopefully you'll get to chance to test out the new moves. Speaker 2: Thank you guys, man. I appreciate it and uh thanks for having me on. Speaker 1: Hey bro, it's been a pleasure. Speaker 2: Oh yeah. Speaker 1: All right guys, thanks for listening to the podcast. Hopefully you enjoy it. Hopefully you got something from it, maybe a little tidbit, a little bit idea. Um as I tell people, you know, I tell people a lot, right? When you when you're listening to people, um explain different ideas out, whether you're listening to a podcast, an audio book, uh a YouTube video, whatever it might be. A lot of times thoughts are going to come to you, right? To me, and this is just my bearded opinion, of course, which I think is a correct one as well. When you guys are listening to that stuff, even when you're reading a book, when an idea comes to you, your idea is to nail down that idea. Like what is it that this means to you? What idea came to you versus like I've seen people where they want to like take exact notes or whatever. You don't want to write it down like that because then you you don't even remember anything, but put it into your own words. Like what does this mean to you? What do you think you could do with this information? So if you listen to this podcast and maybe this idea of rolling with no submissions as an example, maybe I think I could do that. Maybe I you can write that down or you can write down your notes or you can think about what that means to you and then implement that at your next session or the next time you're like reading a book, you know, like write in the margins. Like I do this all the time. Like if you ever read ever see a book that I've read, it's like it's got dog ears, tabs all over it and if you open it up, there's just stuff all through the margins. That's so you can kind of remember it better and you can understand not just what it said, but like what it said meant to you, right? And even if you go to the gym, if you're watching a technique and you're trying to take notes from a coach or whatever, don't just like try to regurgitate what they're saying. Try to think about explaining whatever it is in a way that you can remember in your own words and what this stuff means to you, right? So, um that's just something that's I find that useful. That's a completely sort of off-topic thing, but I think it can be useful for anything if you're listening to the podcast because ideally, we try to like sort of find a balance between just some entertainment value, getting to know this person, uh but then also too, try to get a couple of useful ideas and there's several good ones on this podcast if you listen closely enough. Uh but again, hopefully you guys enjoyed it and got something from it. And if you guys do enjoy the podcast, I always encourage you to send us a message and let us know. Um you can if you can review us, if you're on like a like an iPod thing jig or whatever, the uh Speaker 3: iTunes. Speaker 1: iTunes or Apple. Speaker 3: Uh no, it's podcast. Speaker 1: Podcast, right? Apple. Well, it's on the Apples, right? It's like Speaker 3: Something like that. Speaker 1: Whatever it is. If it has an ability for you to review, if you want to give us a review, we'd appreciate the hell out of it. Um share it with a friend, whatever. Uh but again, even sometimes it's just it's helpful to like know who's on the other end because there's no comment section, you know. There's no comment section. Well, there is on YouTube, so maybe if you're on YouTube, there may be a comment section. Speaker 3: I think I think uh Spotify may have it too. Speaker 1: Does it? Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so. Speaker 1: Maybe they added one. I didn't know. Speaker 3: They can comment on Spotify. Speaker 1: We don't have video on Spotify. We could put video probably. Speaker 3: Maybe we do that. Speaker 1: Uh but anyway, you can always send us a message at chewyjitsupodcast@gmail.com and you can let you can send it over to you and let us know how what you think about it. But guys, with that said, appreciate our sponsors for helping make this podcast happen and helping bring our bearded voices to your ears week in, week out. Charlottesweb.com, they've been a long time supporter of the podcast. I've used a lot of their different products. Categorically, I put them into the sort of realm of recovery and that sort of thing, like whether it be CBD CBD, CBN, some of the functional mushroom products they have and even some of the bombs and muscle rubs that they have, which I keep on hand with me when I'm traveling. All that sort of lumps into me with recovery, you know, being able to deal with all the stress, uh the the sports induced inflammation that we get, trying to find better sleep uh cycles and having supplements to support it. If you guys want to check out their website, go to charlottesweb.com. If you find a product you like and you'd like to save a few bucks on it, ChewyJitsu30 is the code to do so. And that supports the podcast. You pay no additional cost and you get 30% off the order. So it's a good deal at charlottesweb.com. And also thanks to our buddies over at epicrollbjj.com. Again, they make terrific jiu-jitsu gear. I get my gis and rash guards made through them because I think they're really good. And they've been a long time supporter of the podcast. They support a lot of jiu-jitsu athletes as well and a lot of people in the community. If you want to check them out, just kind of browse through their catalog like you're, you know, at a uh sort of a store if you will, virtually, you can see what they got, what they offer. And if you find something you like, you can use the promo code ChewyJitsu20, c h e w j i t s u 20 for 20% off the order. And guys, if you want to support the podcast directly, you can mosey on over to the Patreon. Again, I'm sure you're aware of how Patreon works. A Patreon is where, you know, you became a member, pay a very nominal fee, a very cheap fee, less than like a freaking basically a Starbucks, like a fancy Starbucks drink. And in turn, you get some bonuses, some content, some other perks, things of that nature delivered to you every week or delivered to you in different periods, right? Depending on what it is. And you get access to those. And again, you're supporting the podcast. If you guys want to check out the the the perks and see what we offer at the Patreon, you can do so by going over to patreon.com/thejiujitsupodcast. And we appreciate the heck out of you guys that do support us uh every month with the Patreon to help the podcast. And uh so again, check it out at patreon.com/thejiujitsupodcast. And last but not least, before we leave you, if you want to get a free ebook and video that goes into some ideas on training with more intention. We talked about that idea of intentionality, focused training uh on the podcast just now, right? We're talking about that and how important it is. It's something that pretty much everybody has to do at some point in order to get good at Jiu-Jitsu. You if you're a coach, obviously you can manipulate your training however you would wish. But if you're not, then you have to learn how to do that with your open roles. And one simple way is to start giving yourself very specific tasks and goals. There's lots of things that you can do. I give you about 12 different ideas in that book and the video. So in case you don't want to read, you can watch. If you don't want to watch, you can read. But I give you 12 different ideas on how to do that. And so you get better better quality training, you get more from the training and again, and then afterwards you'll get my daily email, which you can unsubscribe from at any time if you wish. And I will not spam you, although I will send you a daily email. So I will never sell your information to anybody else, but I will email you daily with something I think might be useful or entertaining to you. Um and so guys, with that said, appreciate you all for being here. Hope you had a good time listening to the podcast and as always, that's it. I don't know. As always nothing. I don't I don't know. Like there's maybe I could just I could use my my daily email. As always guys, that's something to chew on. You know, you need that little the little quippy, little witty one liner, yeah. Speaker 3: Saying. Speaker 1: Well, I mean it works great in the emails. It's just like an idea to chew on, right? Get it. Speaker 3: We could always end with a poem. That was nice. That was like a great way to cap off the podcast. Speaker 1: Could. Speaker 3: Or like a little little little quote, like a stoicism or Speaker 1: Oh, we could start could be like a little Speaker 3: I'm usually coming across a good quote. Speaker 1: Yeah. Okay. Have you ever um Speaker 3: Well, then I'll have to I'll have to remember it. Speaker 1: So we won't do it this week because we just gave you guys a pretty good banger. So like I mean the Speaker 3: Banger. Speaker 1: Banger. If you guys Rudyard Kipling that that that if poem, it's a great poem. You should read it. It's like there's some really good versions of it on YouTube that are read by like sort of raspy, deep voiced narrators. Like, hello my son. You know like where they're like this that deep like just it sounds so epic when it's being read by that versus, hey guys, you know like you know what I mean? Like um but so there's some really good versions of it done online. Uh but read it, it's a great poem. Um that's one of the ones where like in one of my my journals, it's like I printed it and like stuck it into one of the pages, you know, just to kind of go along with it. But that's a good idea. We should start ending with quotes and ideas, some some little little thing to chew on at the end of the podcast. Speaker 3: I'll start doing that from my reading because I'm reading every week so I always get some interesting Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe like a like a line or two or something that's kind of stands out to you. Speaker 3: I can do that. We'll do that. Speaker 1: We'll do it. We'll do it next time. All right guys. So with that said, that's something to chew on.