Datsusara Founder and BJJ Blue Belt Chris Odell (Episode 410)

Speaker 1: What up, guys? Welcome to the podcast. Today we've got Chris Odell on the podcast. He is the founder, um, of Datsusara, which is a company that makes a number of different products, famously for bags and jiu-jitsu related products. But basically, it's hemp is like the main thing they make, but using all natural fabrics, hemp and other things like cotton and everything else to make their products. We get into this a little bit and the idea of like fibers and natural fibers and how, you know, we'll go through great lengths to not get exposed to microplastics or whatever, or aluminum in our deodorant, or fluoride in our toothpaste, but then you drown yourself in, you know, plastic related materials in your clothing. Sometimes you don't even realize it, right? Um, so, but we get into that and we just kind of ramble all over the place because he's a business owner, so we talk about that stuff. He's a jiu-jitsu practitioner, so we talk about that stuff. He's like probably one of the world's longest, uh, running blue belts out there. Yeah. Who's still training. Um, but again, it's a fun fun podcast. And, uh, you know, some cool information there and then obviously we get into some rants because he is a tangential ranter, like myself. And so, uh, hopefully you guys enjoy the conversation, get some ideas from it, and, uh, that's that. So big thanks to our sponsors for helping make the podcast happen. Charlotte's Web CBD. They're one of the OGs in the CBD space. They've been around for a long time. They were the first CBD company I ever heard of. randomly used it because I was given some stuff from a friend. I didn't even think about it until afterwards and I said, oh, that stuff's actually working. I wasn't even expecting it to do anything. Um, and so I've been a, you know, fan of it since. And again, I use it, I like it. I think it's useful for me. CBD sort of inhabits a recovery element space, if you want to think of it that, you know, as as I get older, like I was talking to a young guy, this young guy was at the gym last night because I had to get my lift in late because Luca was he was in rare form when he got home yesterday and Jess was exhausted. And so I was like, why don't you go take a nap? I'm gonna take him outside and then, you know, whatever. We'll get to keep the house quiet, let you get a nap in. And so I took him outside to play while she was napping. And so I didn't get my lifting time in. So I got my lifting time after class last night. Um, because I was just teaching, I wasn't training. And, uh, when I was lifting, this young guy was still there hanging out and he said, man, he's like, dude, you're big. He's like, are you all natural? I was like, no, sir. I was like, I'm on the TRT, man. I was like, I'm an old man. So I was like, I'm using a little TRT. But again, you know, as you get older, as we all know, even with TRT, your recovery just goes down. You know, it just that's the whole thing. And so for me, I use it for recovery aspects, you know, both for the idea of being able to help with stress management, help deal with stress, and also help deal with sports induced inflammation. That's like the biggies, right? So you can manage those two, you can get a little bit more out of your body, recover a little bit better, and that's what I'm using it for. And I use it at nighttime if you're curious. Uh, if you guys want to check out any of their products, whether it's the gummies, the tinctures, the functional mushroom products, the balms and rubs, etc, etc. They've got a lot of different stuff. If you want to save 30% on the order, you can get it with, uh, the code Jiu-Jitsu 30 at checkout at Charlottesweb.com. Also, thanks to our buddies over at Epic Roll. Epic Roll is a jiu-jitsu brand company made by a black belt who's out rolling, competing, and doing the whole thing just like us. And again, they support a lot of different, uh, up and comers. They support the PGF, uh, competition that, uh, gets going, the Professional Grappling Federation. And again, it's, uh, it's a product I use. I use the the rash guards every single day and I've been getting my gis made through them for a long time now. So again, um, it's a good company. If you guys want to check them out, you can go to their website at epicrollbjj.com. They've got a lot of good, uh, gear and good designs, good customer service, the whole deal. And if you want to save 20% on the order, use Jiu-Jitsu code, Jiu-Jitsu 20 for 20% off the order at checkout at epicrollbjj.com. Also, thanks to our newest sponsor, Datsusara. You can check them out at DSgear.com. Don't worry, you don't have to remember Datsusara, but DSgear.com. The promo code is Jiu-Jitsu 10. So again, we've been using a lot of their bags recently. That was like when they came on as a as a sponsor, I was like, let me check out those bags. If you guys aren't familiar with our sort of sponsorship policy, um, we don't take sponsors that we don't like, don't believe in, and don't think would be valuable to people because I consider you guys as an extension of my students. Some of you guys that listen to it are my students. And, uh, you know, I don't mind, I'll sell the hell out of something if I believe in it, but I can't sell it if I don't really enjoy it. And that's why I don't do ad reads on this whole thing. I don't want to be like, hey, guys, do you know what's really great? These new potato chips are amazing. You know, we all seen those, right? I don't want to do that. I'd rather just do like products I really enjoy and think would be really cool. So they gave us the bags. We got the fanny pack, got the, uh, the the big the big, uh, like 45 liter backpack. Um, they're tanks, right? Uh, and we'll talk a little bit more about their stuff later on. Uh, but I've been using the, uh, the fanny pack pretty much every day. I put my like doggy treats in it. So when I'm taking Obi for a walk, we walk around and give him some little doggy treats. And I've got his poop bags, asshole. He, uh, dude, I the other day, he keeps doing this thing where like, I'll walk him out in our backyard, he poops, I'll get his stuff, throw it away, and I'm like, now let's go on our walk. So I don't have to go, yeah, whatever, you know. So then we're going and then of course, like, it's like, you know, we're I'm planning on going like a 30, 40 minute walk with him. And about 20 minutes into it, he poops. And it's like, I'm like, dude, I don't want to carry around your hot poop for the next 20 minutes, right? So, but anyway, um, you know, I have the fanny pack and I've also used the big bag and starting using that as my like go-to gym bag. It's a tank. It's got all the pockets you need to get your belt, your gi, everything else. Um, it fits in there great. Um, and again, it's made from hemp, you know, it's made from hemp is is that's the main product. And he'll talk more about that later on on the products, uh, or on the on the podcast. But that said, if you guys want to check out their stuff, DSgear.com, I'll just give you a heads up, it's not the cheapest gear ever, right? So if you're looking for that like the Temu, whatever it is, the junk where you, you know, you get it and it tears apart really fast, it's not your thing. But if you want like something of quality, something that's gonna last you for a long time, um, that you'll like as soon as you pick it up, you will like feel that there's like a tangible, ooh, this is something, this is substantial, then again, if you're that kind of person, which I am, I like their stuff. Um, I've enjoyed their gear and I think that it would be useful for anybody that wants less stuff, but higher quality stuff. Um, so you can check them out at DSgear.com. Jiu-Jitsu 10 is the code. Also, thanks to our Patreon members. You guys are supporting the podcast as well, and we appreciate you. If you want to become a Patreon member, you can do so by rolling on over to the website at patreon.com/thejiujitsupodcast. And when you join up, you'll get access to the list of perks that we have. If you want to check that out, go to that website. Um, this includes everything from podcast extras from our guests, content that we don't release from the podcast that's there, like basically little podcast extras with me and Eugene as well. We also have recordings from seminars and warm-up routines and stretching routines that Eugene's put together and that I've put together. That and more at the Patreon at patreon.com/thejiujitsupodcast. And, uh, last but not least, guys, if you want to get my daily email, you can do so by going to my website at jiu-jitsu.net/join. I send it out daily. If you want to get access to it, when you join up, you also get access to an ebook and video guide that goes into some ideas on how to become more focused with your jiu-jitsu training. A lot of people are sort of running around with their heads cut off and consuming too much and not becoming effective with any of it. And so it's a way to help you get a little bit more dialed in and give you some tips on ways that you can maybe make that happen, so you can get more focused with your training, be more deliberate, and improve faster. That's that's the whole goal. So you get that, you get my daily email. If you enjoy the podcast, you'll love the rants in the email. And again, that's at jiu-jitsu.net/join. So, guys, with that said, let's jump into this podcast with Chris. Speaker 2: So, well, I mean, when I was really young, like, God, like 11 or 12 or something like that, I did like a little bit of Koikondo because I had a friend that was doing it and I wanted to check out some kind of martial art. Didn't have a very good experience with that. I mean, I think I spent like three months just learning like one punch and then it was and it and they were they spent most of their time trying to get you to get other people to sign up. That was like, that was how you got rewards and things. So, it was a little weird. Anyway, so I kind of I dropped it. I was like, ah, maybe it's not for me. That's fine. Speaker 1: It's like you're in like a you're in one of those like multi-level marketing. Speaker 2: It really felt like that. Speaker 1: It's it's multi-level marketing, Eugene, not a pyramid scheme. Speaker 2: Yeah. And when you tempt the kid with like, hey, you can get the throwing stars if, you know, you just get somebody signed up. I'm like, oh, yes, please. So. Speaker 1: Yeah, right. Speaker 2: But yeah, so I. Speaker 1: Holding the athletic tape out in front of him. Come here, big guy, Billy, do you want to get this stripe? Go get. Speaker 2: That's right. So that didn't go too far. Um, but I always liked, uh, I, you know, I always liked the Bruce Lee films and things like that. And so, um, I'd gotten to a point in my life when I was pretty much just doing mostly work at at desks. I mean, I was doing video productions, uh, and just, you know, barely doing any kind of exercise at all. And then I had a friend that was getting into we were used to play ping pong and stuff. We were messing around and then he got into tennis and he's like, hey, you want to join me? I'm like, ah, sure, whatever. I hadn't picked up a racket in years and I started doing that and I lost a little weight and got active again. I went, oh, I kind of missed this. But then I I still I had this urge to go find a martial art still. And I was still a fan of like Bruce Lee films and all that. I went, you know, it seems like maybe that would be a decent way to go. So I like I looked around everywhere to see if I could find Jeet Kune Do. And there was a guy, um, where I was up in the, uh, California in the Bay Area at the time. And there was a guy who was teaching, but he was teaching not like concepts like in Osanto where it's kind of evolved. He was teaching more of the old like whatever Bruce was teaching back in, you know, 1960 or something. So he was kind of stuck just emulating that. And, um, and somewhere along the line when I was training in that, um, somebody brought by a UFC, you know, classic story. Somebody brought by a UFC on on DVD or whatever. And, uh, and then we watched that and I went, damn, like, okay, like this seems like the real thing. And I was just fascinated, you know, like a lot of us and like, okay, this is, you know, we really wanted to see what would happen. Okay, is Sumo, you know, gonna beat the little wrestler guy or whatever, you know, what's how's this gonna work? And, um, and so I I kind of decided at that point. I said, well, even though I don't really want to do all this groundwork and and wrestling and jiu-jitsu, I feel like this is the this is the MMA is the real deal and I've got to go find that. So, um, I looked around and I found a place. There was a, uh, it was a a straight blast gym, uh, at the time it was called Modern Combatives, but anyway, it was a straight blast gym in Berkeley. And, um, and started there. And originally, I didn't want to do jiu-jitsu. I just thought that was I was like, man, I don't I had like issues with touching people that much. Didn't want to be on the ground, but I liked I'd see like Chuck Liddell and I'd go, yeah, I want to be like that. I just want to learn enough so that I can get back up and punch people in the face. And then I did I trained mostly I did a little jiu-jitsu, but mostly kickboxing and Muay Thai for the first, I don't know, six or seven months and went and had a little friendly, uh, competition fight with one of our other gyms up in Oregon. And just stand up though, and I got punched in the head enough times. I went, okay, maybe not. Maybe maybe I should learn this jiu-jitsu thing because this really sucks. Speaker 1: Yeah. Like stand up is great when you're doing the punching, but it's not that fun when you're getting hit and, um, you know, that's just that's part of it, part and parcel, right? You have to be able to deal with the hits. Uh, what what what time period is this? Like what year is this roughly? Speaker 2: Oh, so this was, um, it was late 2005 when I started. So, pretty long time ago. Yeah. So, and I kept up with that. Um, I did start transitioning doing more jiu-jitsu after that. Um, and I trained there for, God, I don't know how many years, but then I and then I started moving around to a lot of different places and, you know, long story short, uh, took me about nine years before someone gave me a blue belt. So, it was crazy because even like even within the first couple years, I was as good as the guys who were getting promoted. I'd often beat them, but I I had a teacher that wasn't very thrilled with it. I think I was over-relying on my guard because especially dealing with a more MMA side. I was like, okay, I kind of weak in the upper body, but I was good with the legs. And I felt like, okay, I'm gonna end up here anyway. So I'm gonna get really good at playing closed guard. And that's when I kind of got a little tempted over to like rubber guard and stuff like that and hanging out with the 10th Planet guys on occasion. So I kind of I cross-trained a little and then I moved around a lot, trained at different gyms and finally just got to be silly because I was a four-stripe white belt for, you know, forever. And so one of my buddies said, hey, why don't just come train with me for like six months and you're gonna do that competition anyway. Train under me for that, you know, and like, I'll just I'm gonna promote you because this is ridiculous. Like, this is just getting silly. And, um, and so yeah, and he did and then, yeah, it's been it's been a long time and a lot of moves since and I'm still I'm still just now I'm a three-stripe blue belt, but I've been training probably almost 15 years if you add it all up. I took a long, long break. Like I took like a six or seven year break and just played golf and gave up on jiu-jitsu for a minute. But, um, it's really nice to be back, but it is, yeah, sometimes there are days where I just go, really? Like, you know, everybody else is like, oh, yeah, 10 years to black belt. I'm like, not for me. Yeah. Speaker 1: Well, so what what sort of what caused all the moving? Was it work stuff or were you just like changing gyms? Speaker 2: Some of it a lot of it is that I just move too much. I'm always trying to find like, oh, maybe this place would be interesting. Maybe this would be a little better. And I I got married again, um, but first I was just dating a girl and I moved down to where she was a little like an hour away from where I was at. And, um, and even just that, you know, sometimes going that far away, it was tough to find another gym that was gonna work. And, um, yeah, and then just moved all over the place. I went down, lived in the Redwoods, and then we moved up to Oregon, just trying to find somewhere that was gonna be great and somewhere to raise once we decided to have a kid. I was like, oh, let's let's try here. Um, yeah, and just kind of just bounced around a lot checking out different places, which was fun, but it yeah, it it it made training difficult because and then even when let's say I was up in outside of Portland for I think four or five years and a lot of great jiu-jitsu there. I mean, I but I trained at all the different gyms because I was because of the company and everything. I was kind of like, oh, I'll go over and say hi to 10th Planet. I'll go say hi to Impact. I'll go say hi to SBG. Um, you know, all these different places, which was great, but I was kind of just I didn't have any one particular teacher or a school where I was really I was primarily at Impact, but not enough to really get promoted. And sure. And to be fair too, if I take some ownership of it, I'm also a stubborn bastard and I really like learning the more of the martial arts and like, hey, if I get in a street fight aspect. So like, I'm not really interested. I mean, I think sport jiu-jitsu is great and it's fun. I'll watch it, but it's not my thing. So a lot of times if I was at certain schools or certain things were being taught, it just wasn't something I was gonna integrate into my game. And so then I would seem, you know, fairly limited. I mean, I'm I'm much more of a I like, you know, like the Hickson kind of Henry Akins, you know, Chris Burns sort of that style. Like I don't even like using gi grips, although I like training in the gi. Uh, things like that. So some of it's just my own stubbornness too. I just I don't I I I know what I want to learn and I have to just accept that if that means I'm not gonna get promoted as quickly as other people, but I've got a game that I like that I think stands up to if there's strikes involved, um, then I've got to be okay with that. So, yeah. Speaker 1: What what brought you back to you said you had a pretty long break. What what was the desire to get back to training after that long break? And and how was it? Was it tough to get back to training? Your body was kind of letting you know, that that you kind of been out of it for a while. Speaker 2: Yeah, it was because even when even when I stopped, I guess what I would have been in like my my I think I was just getting to be about 40 and like, you know, I was feeling it. I had a lot of times where I used to have great flexible shoulders and then one day I went, oh, I think I took I I let one Americana go too far and I just went to pick up my daughter and I went, oh, like I couldn't do this motion, you know, and I that wasn't good. So, but that kind of healed up a little bit on its own, but I've always had bad rotator cuffs since and so yeah, taking I I basically I moved back to my old hometown and there was no at the time, there was no jiu-jitsu gym there. So I would have had to drive an hour and that just wasn't wasn't happening. And, um, still raising the kid and stuff and just thought it's not gonna happen. And, uh, so and I oddly got into golf. Never thought I would in my life and but my, uh, my in-laws, my Korean in-laws, uh, shockingly love golf and so they they took me out one day and I went, why have I been dogging on this? This is like a sport in a Zen Garden. This is amazing. And so I actually really, really enjoyed it. So I kind of got I took all the energy that I would have put into jiu-jitsu and things like that before and just got obsessed with that for quite a few years. Um, and then when I moved here to Texas, um, there was a straight blast gym near here. Uh, the person who opened it, Michael Heinz, is kind of a student under John Frankl, who I've known since the early days. He's kind of out in, uh, pretty much introduced jiu-jitsu to Korea. Um, and so yeah, he said, oh, you should go by and check it out and say hi because I've got a, you know, my my buddy opened up a gym there, my student there. And, um, so I went by and said hi and I signed up and I went, eh, okay, I'm gonna drop by every now and then. But I don't know what happened. At some point, the bug just came back, you know, I just had started getting a little better. Things started coming back to me. And I missed I I I missed the I missed the workout the way that and and the way that it's a meditative workout and the way that you don't get with a lot of other things. Um, and I really missed the community. I think in more than I realized. I just realized those are my kind of weirdos, you know. Something about the jiu-jitsu people that are just they're like they're down I mean, they I don't know. There there's less bullshit and and they tend to be, I don't know, interesting people. Kind kind of kind of dorks, but like, you know, into weird stuff, but also just interesting people into this, um, yeah, into this martial art that's just, I don't know. I find it it attracts a lot of a lot of people that I like being around and it's I missed that a lot. Speaker 1: What I think too, you know, when we come into the gym, we don't want to sort of I mean, it happens some places, but you don't want to dump out all the like negative political, whatever stuff. So it forces you to be a little bit more interesting, right? You know, like you're you're pretty boring if if the only thing that you got are like whatever the talking points are from whatever sort of like news person you're listening to, whereas like, you know, me and the guys a lot of times we're sharing books that we read or we're talking about stuff going on with our kids and we're talking about all these things and we could be on completely opposite ends of the, uh, of whatever political or religious spectrum that we're on, but at the same time, we're trying not to pervert the space by getting into all that stuff. So therefore, it forces you to be a little bit more interesting than just sort of going to that. Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely. Speaker 1: So John Frankl, is he the guy that's like super famous in Korea? Speaker 2: Yes. Yes. He's like he's just like, yeah, if it was not for him, there probably wouldn't be any jiu-jitsu over there. And he's pretty much, yeah, he's the guy over there and he's been with Straight Blast for a while. Yeah. Speaker 1: I forgot who was telling me about this. It's like the the guy is like a he's a rock star there. Like when he like goes over there, it's not like a casual thing. Like it's like they pick him up and it's he is the dude, right? Like, I mean, imagine like the one of the Gracies say circa late 90s, early 2000s here if they come in and it's just a big deal. You know. Speaker 2: It could be. I have no I it's totally possible. Speaker 1: I don't know if it's the same guy, but I I feel like I talked to someone and I think it was like at a seminar and the guy was telling me about this, but, um, I was just curious. Speaker 2: What made him so popular? Speaker 1: He was the guy that spread it there. He's like he was the guy he was like one of the first guys out there, you know. Um, yeah. And so where did you end up moving to? You said you bounced around a lot, right? Looking for the right place. Where did you end up moving to? Speaker 2: Well, I got a little bit, I don't know, when things when the world got weird and the lockdowns happened and all that, um, I I just for I was like, okay, there's too much insanity out. I was, you know, so in California. Speaker 1: Were you in California at the time? Speaker 2: I was and although I was I was in a small town where like we largely weren't affected by it and I could kind of like tell my daughter like, hey, when we go to the city, see all the crazy people, but like at home, it was mostly okay. But I I you know, I had one trip to LA at one point for something. I think it was for the 10th Planet anniversary party actually. And just being down there for a few more days. I was like, I gotta get the fuck out of this state. This is it just creeped me out. And, uh, might have been a little hasty because we did have a good thing there and I missed the land and and I have I have family there. Like my mother just turned 80 and even though she's active and pretty healthy, you know, like I'm her only kid. That's her only granddaughter that I have. So I feel bad and we may have to we may have to turn tail and go back at some point. But, um, but I but I really did. I was just tired of the bullshit and I I said, all right, let's just get out of there. And I so my wife had grown up in Texas and, you know, we had visited a few times and I went, that seems like a well-run state and and it is. I love I love the people here. So I'm in New Braunfels, Texas, about an hour south of Austin, a little north of San Antonio. And it's, you know, for here, it's a small town. It's only 100,000 people compared to like Austin or San Antonio. But it's still more crowded than I like. I've realized I I really like small, quiet, out of the way places. But, um, but still, it's a it's a nice town and the gym is great here. That's the one thing if I leave again, it'll be tough to tough to go. You know, you get attached to a family of people at your at your gym and that can be that can be really hard to switch that up. Speaker 1: Yeah, it's you back then when all that stuff was going on, you didn't know when it was gonna stop. Speaker 2: Yeah, that was the thing. Speaker 1: Right? Because like because it's like if you if you knew that there was like a time stamp, like this is only gonna last till X time, it would have been fine, but there was so much uncertainty. And I mean, and depending on where you were at, like, you know, where I'm at in Kentucky, in Louisville, it's a good size city and stuff, but we most of the places, we were all pretty over it like within somewhere in 2020. And I mean, you could you could go out to restaurants and you could play the game of putting the mask on and then you sit down and we all kind of like played around like it was it was the dumbest shit ever. You thought it was like, it's like when, you know, it's like the kid who like, you know, gets scared and they cover themselves up with their blanket, so nothing's gonna get him kind of thing. It's like, what? Like this is so silly. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 1: But, um, but then we were kind of over it. But in California, I remember like, I remember getting messages from people who were like this is 2021, like deep into 2021. I'm getting messages from people in other states like New York and California. They're like, don't you feel like you're kind of being like irresponsible by training with so many people? I said, no, like, nobody's nobody's everybody's fine. All my students like all my my students have all are all fine. We all got it and most of us had no issues with it whatsoever. Like, no, like. Speaker 2: Yeah. No, it was. Speaker 1: It's wild. Speaker 2: It was wild to see and it was like, yeah, even though again, my hometown there was most people let go of it quick enough, but it but going around the state and just seeing what it did what it had done to people's minds. I just people were got messed up and they took advantage of it too to also stuff all this other crazy political stuff all at the same time and it just got to a point where I went, okay, like, you know, everybody just has mental health issues. I just I couldn't I was like, I'm surrounded by absolutely crazy people and it's not even totally their fault, but I was also worried just about government overreach. I was like, well, if they pulled this off, what else are they gonna do? And I felt like the state there wasn't going to do anything to protect anybody's rights. So it was it was a little bit concerning to say the least. I mean, I've gone back since and it's back in my hometown, you almost wouldn't know anything had changed and I go, well, I could probably go back and put on the blinders and and maybe now that I'm back in jiu-jitsu and I'm not as deep into politics, uh, because I did get there for a second because it dragged me in too. Um, now I'm back to sanity. Speaker 1: Well, I mean, if you're I mean, back in 2020, I felt like it got everybody for at least a little bit because you were sitting there and like, I've always been kind of like disconnected from it because I think they're all scumbags for the most part. And, you know, not everybody's lying to you, right? Everybody's got an agenda. Um, unless you find some place, but everybody's getting paid somewhere on the back end or being directed. Uh, you know, and like, but but it got you because for the longest time, all the main news outlets were off of those platforms, social media and stuff like that, right? And then they got on them and they got preferential treatment on YouTube and Instagram, things like that where like, I there were like YouTube was like pumping them up because you'd have these big mainstream news articles coming there. So you're getting hit with it. And then every Tom, Dick and Harry became like a a political hot take person. You know, people that were like, they they were like in the fitness niche and all of a sudden they're giving their political hot takes. I'm like, you're a guy that lifts weights. I don't care about your geopolitical sort of thinking. Like, you have no idea what's going on. Um, and and so it was just like you couldn't it was so hard to get away from it and you had to catch yourself. Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it used to be back in the day. I mean, before you had social media and all that, it was like, okay, there were uninformed people, but they largely just they weren't they weren't motivated to go yell at anybody. They're just like, well, whatever. I have an opinion, but I'm not gonna get into it. But then somehow it encouraged everybody to just be super proactive. In fact, if you weren't speaking out, you're a bad person. So, you know, go out and say something. So yeah, it just became such a mess. It actually even got to a point with me where I remember calling like Rogan actually called me back one day because I was like, man, how do you deal with it? Like, you're on the airwaves and like, you have these opinions and I have strong opinions, but I but I I don't deal well because I was having people like from across the country who had seen a couple of things I had posted. I was like, I don't think this is a good idea. And they're like, he's a scumbag. Don't buy anything from his company. And like really coming at me and like, if you come out to New York, I'm gonna throw hands with you. I was like, holy shit, you know, and kind of spooked me out because I just I don't deal well with that kind of that stuff bothers me. Speaker 1: It's weird energy. Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just not not good. So I remember Joe calling me and I'm like, how do you do it, man? He's like, it just we had a long conversation. He's such a nice guy to to give me the time. But, uh, yeah, it just, I don't know. You gotta be cut out a little different for that. But I it kind of spooked me a lot and I just I kind of got jaded about the world, got spooked out and I finally was like, yeah, I'm I'm just gonna go to Texas and just lay low for a while. But, um, yeah, so it's a, yeah, it's been a weird, weird journey. Speaker 1: It was a crazy time for a lot of us. And I think part of it is everybody was kind of separated and isolated. And, you know, there's not a lot to do besides like consume. Speaker 2: I don't know. Speaker 1: You know, actually on your own or consume social media and stuff, but like. Speaker 2: Or like you couldn't go out and like like we won't we'll get off this topic soon, but like we we couldn't I remember it was wild because like you couldn't go out and eat food in a restaurant. You couldn't go out. You weren't you were discouraged from doing like things like in some places like you're in California like going to the beach. Right? But you could go down the street and you could have signs and yell and scream in large groups, but you couldn't go into a park. Like, you know, now in Kentucky, obviously, it was not like that. We were pretty pretty loose, but even though you couldn't go to a restaurant, but then we had at the downtown, they had protests and stuff. I'm like, well, like that that's when I like we reopened our gym just sort of like like I'm like, if you guys are doing this, we're gonna do this. You have a like multiple thousands of people here, then I'm gonna have like 50 people training tonight and you can get over it. And that's just what it's gonna be, you know. Um, we're we're having our peaceful assembly, you can you know, you can go stuff it. Speaker 2: Yeah. It was kind of wild. I remember talking to all my jiu-jitsu friends that I still knew and I was like, what are you guys up to these days during the like, oh, like it was like jiu-jitsu speak easy, you know, like, okay, well, we've got somebody's basement and we're, you know, keep it low key. It was it was a little nuts. But. Speaker 1: It was underground. That's how like that was part of the way one of our we started having 6:00 a.m. classes at the gym and it was kind of started just because a couple of guys were like, hey, you want to just get together just a couple of us and then word got out and then more people started coming in. And I think classes started just kind of, you know, it it's just one of those things like it it's so hard because you lose that community as well. Like with jiu-jitsu, it's like, chew it. I would still get together and we actually, you know, it was crazy that people were trying to do a lot of podcasts at the time and so we would still kind of get together and do that stuff, but it was it was weird. It was like the, you know, for you it's probably the longest break you ever took and I mean, I don't know how long a break you took, but it was for me, it was a long break. Um, but I was like, well, eventually like it's just just get back to normal, I guess and then go from there. So. Speaker 2: Yeah, it was tough on companies too. I'll tell you that. Like I mean, I I was kind of annoyed too with the government on that one because they were like, well, we're gonna make it so that you pretty much can't do business, but we will give you a loan. If you want a nice loan, it's like, yeah, it's a low interest rate, but you're still you made the problem. Now I'm I'm like, I'm still paying off that loan. Speaker 1: Oh, and they're still gonna tax you. Like you still have to have rent due. Like our taxes went up when we technically weren't supposed technically weren't supposed to be open. Like what sense does this make? Speaker 2: How is that? Right? Yeah, very unfair. Yeah, it it I don't know. It was it was a little rough. I'm still trying to get the business back to where it was before that. I mean, it pretty much cut our sales in half and still hasn't ever quite come back. And then on top of that, you've got all the raising, you know, prices of everything since then, which make it make it tough too. Speaker 1: Yeah, so tell me about that. How did you get into the I don't know what businesses you do. I know you said you were talking about video production earlier and, um, but I know you obviously own Datsusara. If you have another business, that's fine. You can talk about that. But like what what when did you get started with Datsusara or in just business in general? Speaker 2: That was about two, well, so before I did Datsusara and before I started training, well, actually, while I started training, I had a video productions company. Um, and it was so I was still kind of my own boss for the most part at that point. Um, you know, I had clients and whatnot. But, um, yeah, at some point, it started just it started kind of driving me a little crazy. Like I just it sucked because I was really good at it. I I I think I don't say that about a lot of things in my life, but I was I got pretty good. And, uh, but I just I wasn't I I started to hate it. And I started to hate also the fact that most of it relied on sitting down and being in front of the computer and like my back's getting fucked up and it just wasn't it wasn't good to be staring at screens all day and doing that. Um, so I was trying to think of something else to do and I had just started training in MMA and all that. And I I was looking around and like, well, I kind of like, I want to make like a product or something, you know, instead of having clients and dealing with that. What could I do for the community or what do we need that could be improved upon? And I kind of looked over at the gym bags that everybody had and I went, you know, these are first of all, they're not really made for MMA. They don't have the right pockets for everything. And they're made out of these, you know, they're just crappy synthetic materials. And I thought I've always had a love of hemp textiles, probably because I used to be a bit of a stoner. And, um, but I knew that hemp was great and I was like, man, why doesn't somebody do something besides making hippie bags out of this? And and, uh, and so I thought, well, I'm I'm gonna design an MMA bag. And I, you know, I pretty much like did it on like just drawing it out on paper like a big box and like, okay, this pocket should be this size and this should be this size. And I took my my measly like $3,000 of savings, uh, in my my life, uh, and I put it into the first, um, hundred or so bags. It was a little much cheaper back then. Um, and, uh, yeah, and I got those and kind of got them to my friends in the gym and and sent them to a few people. Most of that didn't pan out. Um, funny enough, of course, I I should have guessed this, but the two people that got back to me that were kind of famous and and said anything were Eddie Bravo and Joe Rogan. And, uh, which I I should have I should have known. Um, uh, but yeah, and I just kept turning over the money. Like I didn't take anything out of the company for a while. Like I just take the profit from that, put it back into making more and expanding it. Eventually, we started doing, uh, you know, 100% hemp jiu-jitsu gis, um, and just kind of kept expanding it out. And I think after about I started that in 2007, so about four years later is when I was able to do it full-time. And I was still shipping things out of my garage and all that, but I was able to actually cut out all the video work. I was just kind of slowly cut out the pain in the ass clients one by one, like, you know, in succession until I just said, all right, I'm done. I'm gonna let this go and, uh, and I'm gonna do this full-time. And that, you know, and it went well. It went really well for a while. And then we kind of, I think when we peaked out was kind of when EBI was a was a big thing. Like we because we sponsored some of those and there was just a moment where everything was like coming up and and everybody it seemed like was just, I don't know, they were they were loving what we were doing and we were in the spotlight a little bit. And when EBI was, you know, for the first few, like everybody was watching that. That was a big deal. And then it kind of tapered off a little bit. Yeah, and then of course, yeah, the the lockdown years came. But, um, but yeah, for a moment there, it was it was it was like just a ton of fun. And it still is. It's nice to come back. But yeah, because I kind of I was a little bit away from the helm when I was when I was mostly just golfing and taking a break. I mean, I was still concentrated on the things I've always done at a minimum, which is making a really, really good product. I've always been a product focused company and then customer service next and then worrying about marketing and stuff has always been our weak spot. Um, but, uh, but I always made sure we were shipping good product. But definitely, uh, took too much of a step back probably from paying attention to what was going on with the company when, uh, especially when I wasn't training. So, it's good for me on multiple levels to be back in the gym. Speaker 1: Yeah, the marketing side of it's important, right? Like it's, uh, you know, especially depending on what like kind of person you are. If you really get geeked out over the products, um, a lot of times, you know, it's like, I mean, it's like jiu-jitsu. Like jiu-jitsu coaches make this mistake, right? Where they like, man, I'm like so good at jiu-jitsu and I've won all these things and everybody's just gonna come because of this. I'm like, nobody's coming because of that, right? Like. Speaker 2: Yeah, not gonna happen. Speaker 1: Some there'll be some people, right? Word gets around, but not like, uh, not like they expect. I I think I came across your stuff in 2013. One of my buddies Brent had got a hold of your stuff. He was a Bellator fighter. And he, uh, he had a he had the bag and he'd given me a pair of the shorts. It was like black shorts with like a silver Datsusara logo. I still have those shorts. You know, like I mean, like I've worn them like off and on for, I mean, what is it, 12, 13 years now? Like, they're still together. I mean, it's pretty impressive. But, you know, I remember the stuff was back then I was like, it was like heavy duty. You know, like when you get a hold of one of the bags or whatever, it's, you know, going back to your idea of like quality. Uh, you know, there's sometimes you get a hold of something that's a little bit on the pricey side and you feel it and you're like, what did I pay for exactly? Yeah. Um, you know, you see this all the time with like handbags and stuff, you know, you're like, why is this crazy? How is this thing cost $10,000? This is just a cheap whatever. Um, nuts, right? But then like, you know, every now and then you do get a hold of something and you put your hands on it and there's a certain feel to it where you're like, oh, no, this is like something like when my wife and I would walk we were when we were shopping around for houses some years ago, you would walk into a house and like sometimes it's like they just did a flip and you're touching the material. Everything feels so cheap, right? And then you go walk into a house where it was like this guy was just like a a handy person who just loved fixing the house and you walk around and everything is just solid. Everything's like small details to it and we were like, this is a really like well put together home that's like sturdy, whatever. And so when you get a hold of your stuff, it's like you instantly feel, oh, this is like there's something to this. It's not like some flimsy stuff that was made in somewhere, right? Where they're just cranking them out and slapping on different logos. This is like a a really well-made product. Speaker 2: Yeah. I've always appreciated things like that. I think even from since I was a little kid, both my mom and my dad were always very much like, you know, buy get a thing of quality and and, you know, really enjoy that and and have something that's gonna last rather than buying these, you know, cheap things that you're gonna replace or just, yeah, putting a veneer on something and, you know, making it look kind of good when really it's garbage. And that always that kind of thing stuck with me. Like I've got this nail file in my desk here that's from Germany that I think my mom bought me when I, you know, finally left the house back many, you know, what, 30 something more years ago now, almost 40 years. Uh, but, uh, and, uh, and and it's still great. It still works fantastically. It's awesome, you know, it was like just it's a quality product and I I love that. So I I try my best to do everything we can to build our our gear, you know, like like tanks, just something that's really gonna gonna hold up. And it it always falls short of what I would like it to do, but I but I I get I don't know. I really one of the things I love the most is when I do get out every now and then and I'm not just looking at emails and stuff. Like I went out to a Chris Burns seminar, um, out in Florida and I ran into two or three people that had my bags there and it had them for like, you know, 10 years. And then they're like, oh, this thing's been every competition with me. I've had it forever. And, um, that stuff I I just love. I'm like, okay, I I I at least I'm doing something useful here on the planet. It makes me feel a little better. Speaker 1: That's it. That's when you're whip out your phone and you're like, say that again now. Speaker 2: Yeah, right. See now that's where like I need someone to follow me around and be the marketing guy and be like, no, no, no, no, no, like you gotta do this because it's hard. I have to force myself just to even go to that level. Like I know there's nothing wrong about it with what I'm doing, but I I too am weary of advertising. I I'm also you're talking about Bernays the other day. And like and and I'm, you know, I hate manipulative. Speaker 1: Oh, you you heard me talking about Edward Bernays. Where did you was it on the podcast? Speaker 2: Yeah, on the podcast and I was like, oh, yeah, someone else who knows that guy. Yeah, so I mean, I'm the guy who I block every ad I can. I pay I'll pay if they give me a choice to pay and not see ads, I'll do it. I don't I just I don't like ads. Like if I want to find something, I will go search for it. Leave me the hell alone. But at the same time, I have to realize that I don't know. It it's tough. It's tough running a company and and that's probably why we're not a multi-million dollar like huge, you know, giant company the way that some of some other people are. But then again, I'm also still here. Like everyone that, you know, kind of tight ship and, you know, we we've gotten through a lot of times where I've seen companies come and go. And, uh, and at least at the end of the day, I I I sleep reasonably well knowing that I, I don't know. I yeah, I'm not doing weird marketing and trying to blast people with tons of ads and crap. Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, but you know, there's also the side of it. And this is how I think of it because as a business owner, I'm with you. Like I there's a certain point of like business and sort of managing the business versus like the relationships and like how I feel about myself, my own integrity. Um, and there's a line I won't cross, right? But at the same time, it's like, you know, I think about like, you know, like what I do. Okay, I'm like, I'm a I'm a coach. I'm helping these people out. Like, if someone, like let's say if someone we're marketing the gym, do I believe that if someone trains with me for 12 like 12 months, just one year that they will be better for it? Absolutely, I do. Whether you're a kid, whatever, I think we can really help you and I think the gym, the environment, the training, all that stuff. We have all the resources to help you in whatever whatever your goals, we can help you. And so like, I think about myself being younger and I think about some of our students. Even some of my I had a guy come in one time who he was on his 12th like 12th touch, right? Where we've contacted him at various times. 12th time even contacted. And he said, thank you for following up with me. Sometimes I don't get around. But he came in and like trained, signed up. He brought his family in, he brought his brother in. He trained with us for a number of years before he moved. And I remember him saying, thank you for doing that because sometimes I get really scatterbrained and I forget about things. I appreciate you guys staying up on me. You know what I mean? And like he got such a great experience from it. And with your stuff, it's like you have you have this great material. Um, obviously, you know, it's quality. It's made from this natural material. Like it's not some weird synthetic crap. Um, you know, if someone gets one of your bags, it's gonna last them for a long time and they can enjoy that versus having to replace it because it's junk and it breaks next year. Um, and so I, you know, for me thinking about it, like, you've got a great product and you've got a great thing. And like, especially if someone's saying it, they're like, dude, this this bag's been great. I don't think of it as like being manipulative. Like it's like with Bernays. Bernays is like paying a doctor to say some shit that's not true, right? Like. Speaker 2: It's a little different. Speaker 1: Bernays is great. It's like versus this guy says he loves your bag. Like, like just share that because if you guys get this bag, you're gonna be great. It's like the the, you know, some of the different products that are out there. If it's a good product, man. I mean. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 1: Anyway, that's that's my spiel. You got something good to sell, freaking sell the hell out of it, you know. Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I think you're right. And I think I think it's something that I I'm I am trying again to sort of just figure out how to do this in a way that that doesn't bother me and give it to someone who actually knows all that and and and doesn't feel squeamish about running ads and whatnot. And I I have to the other part that gets to me is is is dealing with social media because I go, okay, like I get it like this is where people mostly get their information from and where they're gonna find me. But I hate giving money to those companies because of like so many things. I'm like, man, I don't want to give meta any money. Yeah. Yeah, it kills me. And then I also, you know, just mental health-wise, I know that we'd all probably be better off if we weren't on there that much. So I'm like, man, I'm just kind of feeding into the beast. But it but it's, you know, at some point, like you said, if if you're gonna help people and you gotta find them where they're at and and, yeah, I need to kind of I need to kind of get over it. But that's why I've got to like hire people to deal with marketing so that it's not in my hands because if it's in my hands, I'd it's never gonna happen and we're just gonna be like, you know, a small club of people that happen to know about us. So. Speaker 1: I think you have to be, um, I think you have to be honest with what kind of what you say, right? Don't like, yeah. Claim something that's not. Like, cuz cuz then you lose trust, right? So that's kind of the main thing. It's like, if we have like a a product we, you know, we have on on the podcast, like we like we used to talk about it honestly. Like we use it. We're like, all right, do we like this? Do we not like it? Yeah. And it's just you have to be because I think it's more genuine that way and you're not like you would hate like somebody buying something and thinking they're getting one thing and they end up getting something else that they're just great or it falls short. Now, everybody's gonna love everything, of course. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 1: But. Speaker 2: I think that's a great way for people to like, like I like sponsoring, you know, people that I people or like podcasts that I like. That that doesn't make me feel bad at all. I love that because I'm like, hey, you know, like we're to come things come to the end of the day. I'm helping out people who I already like and cool. If they happen to get the word out and it helps my company as well. That that kind of advertising I I really dig. I almost like the old old days where it was like, hey, this show is sponsored by blah, blah, blah. And that was it. And it was like, okay. So, you know, it's uh, yeah, there there definitely there are ways I'm still working on it. And it and it's interesting too now that we have this flood of of AI crap coming in. I think the companies that are trustworthy are gonna stand out, but it is a little wild west right now and that, you know, yeah, we're just gonna keep getting flooded. You go on Amazon or whatever and it's like, look for, I don't know, about a desk fan or something. It's like 12 million companies you've never heard of that are just, you know, and then on social media, it's just gonna get worse and worse too. But I think so it is a good time for companies that are trustworthy and making good things to kind of establish themselves because I I think sooner or later people are gonna be getting off of social media or at least not paying much attention because when every other scroll is an ad and you from some other random company, you know, people are gonna stop caring so much. It's gonna be tough. Speaker 1: I think so, you know, it's uh, you're already seeing a little bit, but, you know, people know what it's doing to them. Um, you know, and whether or not they're choosing to get off of it. I mean, like I'm not on it much because I can't stand it. And like, I mean, there was a whistleblower that had a congressional hearing and during that hearing, she was talking about like how the the people that make and own and produce these products, not products, but these companies, meta and, you know, all this stuff, social media, they don't let their kids use the product, right? They keep their they keep their kids away from it, right? Like. Speaker 2: These kids. Speaker 1: Like that tells you something. You know, um, and then it's like, you know, Steve Jobs famously didn't let his kids have iPhones or iPads when they were young. It's like, they knew what it was doing. And, you know, and in it's sad like where you see people where, you know, I'm not saying a little bit here and there is fine, but like, you know, they they've got little zombie like tablet toddlers. Kids don't go out and play. They they have weakened core strength. Like everybody's running around keeping their kids locked up because they're terrified of their neighbors. You're like, what world do we freaking live in? It's like, you realize like 30 years ago, this play like the crime was like on par where it is now and maybe a little bit worse and like, you guys are locking your kids up like it's it's like you you need to get off social media and stop digesting news. It's not that bad out there. Um, but yeah, I understand it's like I hate I I'm on those platforms and I use them, you know, but I don't want to be a product of them, you know, that kind of thing. I don't want my family to be either. So. Speaker 2: Yeah, use responsibly, you know. Speaker 1: Yeah. But like you said, it's kind of the cost thing because, you know, you used to be that you would get something and you just had that thing forever. It was like, you didn't get rid of it. In some cases, they would be passed down from family member to family member, right? And then. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 1: It's, uh, that idea that like, you know, again, goes back to the Bernays thing, right? Where you're like, hey, like, you know, people used to look at cars as a utility where you weren't trying to replace it every year. Then they wanted to profit. So now it's like, we will sell you cheaper furniture stuff and like, hey, every so many years, let's overhaul everything. Let's get rid of the new cow or get new couches, new everything because you just want shit to look different. And you're willing to pay 20 grand to do that, right? So or 30 or whatever the hell your expenses, it just goes up. So instead of just having like, no, this is great. Like this is this is what I need and I don't need to change this every few years and this stuff's quality. Like you said, you get a hold of a really solid piece of furniture and it's like, you can feel it. It's sturdy. It's not flimsy, you know, it's not, uh, it's not made out of particle board or something like that. So. Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, anything to avoid like planned obsolescence. When I heard of that concept, I just that makes me so angry. The idea that you could make something better that would last forever, but you're specifically going to engineer it to fail so that you can, you know, have another made. I just that just that pisses me off to no end. So. Yeah, try to I try to avoid that. I want to build stuff that's that's gonna last as much as possible. Although apparel's always frustrating because it's uh, not only is it hard to make and and but you deal with people, everybody's different body sizes and stuff. Like making bags so much easier, but yeah, apparel's hard and it's gonna wear out differently for other people and probably not gonna be around. But although at the same time, like I've got a whole closet full of vintage like Hawaiian style artsy shirts that are some of them most of them are from the 60s and 70s and they're perfectly fine. I'm like, that's like, that's pretty cool. I do I do like that. So I I hope to make some better, uh, shirts like that someday because I don't know. I I I get a kick out of that. Speaker 1: Chris, uh, so people want to get, uh, what's what's your, uh, other website? Is it Odell Sports? Speaker 2: Just Odell Sports.com. That one's a little easier to, uh, Odell Sports.com. Yeah, that's easier to find. One of these days I'm gonna get around to to updating that one better. I've, uh, yeah, I I got that going and then I moved here and then I got back into jiu-jitsu and now that one's suffering because I've been focusing more on Datsusara, but yeah, we'll see. Some of one of these days I'll get all the right people in place to to kind of, uh, yeah, help me keep this thing, uh, rolling along and, you know, keep me in line. Speaker 1: Very cool. And then, uh, we are excited to have you as a sponsor. Speaker 2: I I really appreciate it. Like I I I love the show and it's just it's nice like I said to be helping out. Like I feel like anything spent on, you know, helping support good people that are, you know, helping out with the things that I love too and and, you know, being you guys are really just authentic people. You seem like good dudes and, uh, you know, I I like I'm just yeah, I'm honored to be part of it and supporting. Appreciate it. Speaker 1: Thanks, man. Well, going back to your point earlier, right? Of like the the integrity thing and not wanting to, you know, make make some obviously, we all want to make money and get paid to do what we're doing, but not being a complete sellout and and and getting when over and manipulative. Like, you know, we, uh, we always test everything that comes through. You know, because I want to know, like if it's something's coming through, I want to know that it's like it's good. Now, obviously, I had a pair of your shorts that for like, you know, some 12, 13 years, but at the same time, I was like, oh, let me let me try some of this stuff out and see if I do like it so that I can actually speak with it because I don't want to tell I don't want to have anything on the podcast because it's kind of goes to your thing. I don't ever want to have a sponsor where like I I hate doing it. Like I don't want to read this ad. This stuff sucks, whatever. I don't want to have that because then it's it's it's sort of perverts your experience with what you're doing. You feel like you're, you know, you're basically being a sellout or a slave to someone's money versus like, no, this is a great product. I would love to tell people about this. You know, it's a way easier it's a way easier thing. And plus for me, like I I can't really talk about something enthusiastically if I'm not using it or enjoy the product. So. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 1: Um, you got good good stuff. So. Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that. Speaker 1: All right, guys. So thank you for being here on the podcast today. Hopefully, you, uh, you guys enjoyed it. Got some ideas, maybe through our conversations. Um, you know, one thing I always tell people, like if you're listening to a podcast, an audiobook, a lecture, or whatever it is, you should be very like aware of whatever thoughts come to your head. Like a lot of times people want to like if they're watching like an instructional, for instance, they want to write down verbatim what the person's saying. I'm like, don't don't do that. Don't write it down verbatim. Whatever's coming to your head in those moments, that's some of the stuff you want to write down. I'm not saying you can't put verbatim what they say, but, um, I think it's really important to like, what is popping up in your brain when you hear this? Because a lot of times, uh, for me, as an example, I've taken a lot of ideas from other areas of my life and other completely different disciplines that then translates over to what I do in jiu-jitsu or business, whatever, from other areas. And so being mindful or being receptive to the ideas that come up in your head, um, I think that's very useful, um, to to do. And, uh, yeah, big thanks to Chris for being on the podcast. And big thanks to our new sponsor, Datsusara. You guys can check them out at DSgear.com. The promo code is Jiu-Jitsu 10 for 10% off. Kind of going back to it, me and Eugene have used the products. That was kind of our stipulation. Send us the products and we'll get back to you about if we want to if we want to have you on as a sponsor. We've had a lot of sponsors over the years come to us for products that they want to sell and we tell them no, more often than not, it's no. There was one, I remember, it was a supplement company that was selling basically, uh, cheap garbage supplements that was put into a box into little vials. I won't say the company's name. Uh, they were really popular in jiu-jitsu. Everybody was like wearing their stuff. They're like, they're still they're still around. They they sent me a message the other day to my jiu-jitsu Instagram saying, we would love to hook up with you, blah, blah, blah. And they were offering at this time, they were offering some good money, um, to to go hustle their stuff. I'm like, I'm not doing that because it's garbage, junk. It's really expensive. It was like, it was like $200 for like a a month supply. And, you know, just to let you guys know, you could go to a clinic if you wanted to get like either TRT or like alternatives because there's other like natural supplements that you can take that sort of just support your natural production. You could go get those for cheaper than that. So I'm like, you can go to the doctor and get on a plan where you get your blood drawn and, you know, so forth for cheaper than going to this supplement company and getting some garbage supplement that probably cost them like 10 bucks. Yeah, no, thank you. I didn't want to represent it. And then we another one we had, they sent us these protein bars. And, uh, I remember Eugene opened it up. Remember that one? And it was just like it fell apart. It was just like it it almost looked like the lifting chalk. It was like lifting chalk had been crumbled up. I'm like, I'm not selling like because again, if if you guys understand this, like if if I tell you that I like a product that I don't like and you get it and then like you're going to associate me with that product. So I didn't want you to associate me with like crumbled up chalky ass protein bars. I figured that would be a bad like business decision, right? This is the same reason why there's some years ago, there was a really popular multi-level marketing pyramid scheme thing that was uh going through the jiu-jitsu community where I remember you talked about that. Yeah, where where like you you don't if you sold enough, you got to like drive their their was a BMW. Um, and I mean, people were hustling it and basically it was just a crappy soy protein shake is really what it was. And of course, if you replace a meal with a soy protein shake, you're gonna put yourself into caloric deficit. And I refused to do it even to the urging of some of the jiu-jitsu guys I knew because I'm like, this is you're you're destroying the trust with your students for a few bucks. Like bad idea. Bad long-term decisions. But anyway, good stuff, great gear. Um, I've used his bag as my gym bag now and I've been using the fanny pack every day as a it's like a it's like a manly looking fanny pack, right? Because fanny pack, when you say fanny pack, it doesn't sound manly at all. But like it's a manly looking fanny pack. I I don't feel funny wearing it down the street as I'm with my dog, my German Shepherd. Um, so, you know, me and my manly dog and my manly bag. Your manly dog and your manly bag. That's right. But anyway, thanks to to Chris for supporting the podcast and we're happy to support him as well. Again, as you heard us on the podcast, the the guy's kind of like maybe, uh, too too too conservative with his his his marketing to, uh, which, you know, you you it's noble in a way, but at the same time, it's like he's got great stuff. So if you're someone that wants some really good substantial stuff, check him out. All right, enough gushing. Um, we'll move to the next sponsor. Big thanks to our sponsor, Charlotte's Web. They've been a long-time sponsor with us and they make great products as well. And that's one of the reasons why they are a sponsor. They're one of the OGs I keep saying OGs. I said this earlier. OGs, not OGs, you're not gonna overdose on CBD. One of the OGs in the CBD space. They've been around for a long time and they've also like we've been to like some of their farms and you go out there and like they're really big on like being third-party tested. They're big on getting CBD sort of approved and through the FDA because, you know, they see a lot of, you know, shenanigans that go on because it's not a regulated product. You know, you could go get a CBD supplement and who knows what's in that damn bottle because it's not FDA regulated. Whereas they're doing everything they can so that if it is regulated, they're already in where they need to be. They don't have to change anything. They're already doing it above and beyond what's required. And so again, it's one of those things where, you know, not the cheapest product. You could probably find CBD somewhere cheaper. Is it gonna be up to the same standards? Probably not. Maybe, I don't know. You don't know. And, you know, is it gonna be third-party tested? Almost certainly not. And so again, if you want to get some CBD products or other products because they do make functional mushroom products and they make some CBN supplements, things like that can be useful for sleep. Check them out at Charlottesweb. Charlottesweb.com. The promo code is Jiu-Jitsu 30 for 30% off the order. Uh, at checkout, it's a great deal. And, uh, you know, if you save a few bucks and support the podcast. Also, thanks to our buddies over at Epic Roll. Epic Roll's been a long-time sponsor. They make terrific gear, uh, good quality stuff, good people. And, uh, good customer service, by the way. I get my rash guards made through them currently. I also get my gis made through them for my students because again, it's good stuff. And if you guys want to check them out, go to their website at epicrollbjj.com and the promo code is Jiu-Jitsu 20 for 20% off the order. And guys, if you want to support the podcast directly, you can do so by rolling on over to our Patreon at patreon.com/thejiujitsupodcast. And when you join up, uh, you will get access to some exclusive perks. Obviously, you guys probably know how Patreon works. You support a podcaster or thing that you're enjoying and, um, you do it through that. And we give you some extras for it. If you want to see the extras and what we offer, go to the website at patreon.com/thejiujitsupodcast and get the the perks and get a little bit more ability to contact us directly if you wish. Also, if you guys want to get my daily email that I send out, you can do so by going to my website at jiu-jitsu.net/join. I'll send you everything that might basically anything from jiu-jitsu training, lifting, philosophy, and books that I'm reading to who knows what. It might be about my damn dog. Or a conversation that I had, right? I mean, just it's anything and everything that I think, um, might be useful to you. And so if you guys want to check that out, go to my website, jiu-jitsu.net/join and get access there. And then I'll also send you an ebook and a video guide that goes into 12 different strategies on improving jiu-jitsu faster by being more deliberate with your training. All right, guys. So here's the quote for today. And this is gonna go to this is an idea shared in one of my emails recently. Again, go back and join my daily email. It's shameless additional plug. And then this is an idea that's going into the newsletter that I send out to my Master's Vault. Um, obviously, we elaborate it on it more. I have a print newsletter that I send out to them monthly. In case you guys, you know, I like actual paper, like ink. You get it in the mail and you open it. That that kind of thing. Um, and so in that newsletter, one of the big ideas was talking about efficiency and how to develop efficiency in your game because as I get older, it's one of those things where I can't kill myself with cardio, right? I just can't do it. I can't train, lift, do everything else and just kill cardio because again, I can't as much as I'm in the gym, I can't just live in the gym. I'm not 20 something anymore. I'm sure you're the same. And the thing is is I don't even think it's necessary. I think that cardio is very helpful to a degree, but I think like the real cardio of jiu-jitsu is from efficiency. You know, it's why like you can have like I I remember a clear example of like this like overweight black belt that was just rolling through people left and right, probably in his 40s. And I'm sitting next to a guy who's in his 30s, who's jacked, who bikes and runs and does like different types of like endurance competitions, who's huffing and puffing. And you're thinking like this overweight black belt is not nearly in the shape that this young guy younger guy's in, who's 30s, right? Not in the shape he is, but he can be out there forever. Why? Efficiency. You know? And so, you know, the newsletter goes deeper into it than this, right? But the idea is still useful. And the, um, the quote kind of goes along with this, which is, and this is like one of the goals of jiu-jitsu that we've talked about numerous times on the channel, right? Is the and this is from I'll I'll give you two. You're welcome. Bonus. It's from Sun Tzu is the first one from the Art of War. It says, the clever combatant imposes his will on the enemy, but does not allow the enemy's will to be imposed on him. So, your job, right? Your job in jiu-jitsu is to impose your will, your position, your techniques on someone. The other one comes from, uh, Cael Sanderson, where he was talking in this, uh, it was just like a basically he's talking to one of his guys and he keeps telling him, make them wrestle your match. Yeah, same thing, right? Basically, you're you're trying to impose yourself on someone. And like kind of going to the conversation we had with Chris, you do this this this applies off of jiu-jitsu as well, where you gotta know your game and everything you do, right? So, for instance, like in business, you gotta know your game. Like, where are you best at? Where where do you bring what do you bring to the table? And you're not gonna be good at everything. And then you gotta get people with you that can support you and fill those gaps and then you gotta like appreciate what they do because it's gonna be different than what you do, right? Um, we do this in our relationships. Like, you know, my wife and I, we have clear roles in our relationships. We talked about this one of the other episodes. Like, we know what we're going to bring to the table and what we're good at. My wife couldn't do what I do. I can't do what my wife does. We do different things. Right? You want to know you want to know where your strengths and weaknesses lie and you you can't you can't develop your weaknesses up into a strength at all times. I mean, you you can develop like incompetency and you can become competent if you wish. Um, but at a certain point, you're gonna be kind of maxed out. You got about three or five things in any area of life that you're gonna be able to really dial into and everything else is just gonna be extra. And so in jiu-jitsu, when it comes to your offense and becoming efficient, you're only gonna have three to five areas of offense that you're gonna be effective from. Everything else you're gonna have dabbled with and you're gonna know a little bit, which is completely completely fine. But you're gonna have three to five things that you really do well. Um, and that is how you become efficient is by working in those areas and then imposing those areas onto other people. That is how you become a an effective grappler is by knowing your game and then making people play in that game. Um, and again, if you guys are interested in my Master's Vault, you can check my website out and, you know, do that whole thing or join my email list and I'll tell you about it. But otherwise, um, that's the idea for today. Those are the two quotes for you guys to take away with very actionable ideas towards jiu-jitsu and everything else. And, uh, that's that. I'm done speaking. Appreciate y'all. Talk to you next week.