BJJ Fanatics 672: Colton Crawford

Speaker 1: Welcome back to the BJJ Fanatics Podcast. I'm your host Ryan Ford. My guest today is a brown belt in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. He's a founding member and the banjo player for the very successful modern roots band The Dead South. Uh, the band has won several awards and they have a global following, touring all around the world. Ladies and gentlemen, it's my pleasure to be joined today by Colton Crawford. How are you today, Colton? Speaker 2: I'm good, man. How are you doing? Speaker 1: I'm great. I'm great. Colton, I'm so finally, I'm so happy we were finally able to get this interview together, man. You and I have been talking through Instagram for a couple of years now, I think. And uh, and I'm I'm so happy our schedules finally lined up here and we were able to get you on because uh when when I found out any anytime I hear someone outside of our Jiu-Jitsu bubble who's done big things in other areas like music or film or things like that, it's always cool to pick your brain and see how Jiu-Jitsu's impacted your life. And I'm someone that loves music, so this is a special one for me. So thanks for being here today. Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, man. Thanks for having me. Speaker 1: Question I always like to start with, man. Tell us about where you're from originally and what life was like before you found Jiu-Jitsu. Speaker 2: Sure. Um, I was born in Edmonton, Alberta in Canada. Um, moved to Saskatchewan, uh, when I was young. I live in Regina, Saskatchewan right now. Um, I got put into Taekwondo when I was 10 years old or so. And um, it was kind of in that phase of life where you're trying parents are putting you into a bunch of stuff to see what sticks and Taekwondo really, really stuck. I loved it. I became kind of obsessed with it as like a kid and a teenager and I did that up until um, I was growing, I grew up in Prince Albert, Saskatchewan. That's where I started doing Taekwondo and then I moved to Regina, um, uh, for university and I had a couple guys that I trained Taekwondo with that also did Jiu-Jitsu and they're like, oh, you know, you should come and give this Jiu-Jitsu stuff a shot. And I was a Taekwondo black belt and I thought, oh, you know, I'll I'll go in there and I'll show these Jiu-Jitsu guys what's up, you know, kind of thing. And I remember just getting just absolutely tossed around on my first day and being like, it's like that that famous Danaher quote where he's just kind of like, I just want to know how this works and so to try and become competent in it because it felt like magic tricks, like, you know, so I just became obsessed with Jiu-Jitsu right away and uh, just kind of been training ever since. So. Speaker 1: That's incredible, man. Well I I can relate. Taekwondo was my first art that I did too when I was like seven years old and I pursued it pretty seriously as a kid. Uh, and but I remember one time distinctively. I remember I remember watching a schoolyard fight actually. And uh, and and one kid threw the other kid to the ground and just sat on his chest and started pummeling him. So I I went to class the next day and told my sensei. I'm like, hey, what what do I do if like a bigger kid throws me on the ground and sits on me? And his answer was kind of like, well, well, you got to use your footwork and make sure that he can't do that. I'm like, yeah, but what what if it does? What if what if that happens to me? He's kind of like, well, you'd uh, you know, he didn't really have he just sort of like a word salad as his answer and I was kind of like, all right, well, noted. I don't don't don't let that happen. Uh, but yeah, but man, so coming from Calgary, man, that there's a lot of uh great Jiu-Jitsu and and and grapplers too outside of Jiu-Jitsu that all come from Calgary. You're a kid of the 90s, I assume. You look like you're about my age. Did you grow up watching like pro wrestling and all that stuff? Speaker 2: Not super into wrestling. Uh, my mom hated wrestling, so we never like, never really watched it as a kid. Uh, I did get into the UFC though. Um, like around maybe 13, 14, I started watching UFC. Um, so yeah, GSP, like, uh, Tito Ortiz, Chuck Liddell era is when I got into it. So, I watched a lot of that and I, yeah, it was the same sort of thing. It was kind of like, um, watching that and then seeing them go to the ground before you know what's going on, it was kind of just like, oh, what is this? Like, you know, I don't like watching this ground stuff. I want to see these guys punch each other. But then once you kind of understand it, it's uh, becomes a lot more, a lot more fun to watch the ground stuff. Speaker 1: Absolutely. Yeah. No, the reason I asked if you were in pro wrestling, my my very earliest reference of Alberta was was there was a handful of professional wrestlers that came from there. So I was just curious if that was uh something you were into. But yeah, so it sounds like it sounds like you were you were into the UFC early on. Uh did you so you started watching during the um like the Tito Ortiz, Chuck Liddell era. When when did you start training? When did you take you when did you decide to like really sign up and commit to Jiu-Jitsu? Uh was it around that time or was it before that? Speaker 2: Uh it was a little bit later. Um Okay. Yeah, I think it was like '09 or so when I started Jiu-Jitsu. Um so I was 19 at the time. Um yeah, it was when I moved to moved to Regina for university. We did like a little bit of Jiu-Jitsu, um, after like after Taekwondo, my uh my uh instructor, he would he would go to Regina every now and again and train, learn a little bit of Jiu-Jitsu and then he'd come back and and show us. So we'd like throw the the like blue school mats down after Jiu-Jitsu or after Taekwondo class and we he'd like show us here's like a here's what a rear naked choke is and here's what a triangle. Like none of us had gis or belts or anything like that. So that was kind of my first introduction to it, but I started actually training at like an a real gym and I think it was '09 somewhere around there in Regina. Speaker 1: Very nice, man. What do you think it was about once you started training Jiu-Jitsu? Was there anything in particular that you really gravitated towards? Like, I know Taekwondo doesn't really have any any direct connections with Jiu-Jitsu. So you're going from a striking art to a grappling art. So it's not like a wrestler that might gravitate towards, you know, top side pressure control and takedowns and things like that. Was there any position though in Jiu-Jitsu that you felt you did naturally gravitate towards? Speaker 2: Uh, I always like playing guard for sure. Uh, spider guard was my thing. I was always really small. I was one of the smaller guys in the gym, so being able to get, but I have like I have flexible hips. So being able to get my grips on the on the sleeves and get my feet in the biceps, I felt was always a it was like a good um, it was just a good game for me and it kind of came naturally to me for some reason. Um, top game took forever. Like it wasn't until purple belt that I started kind of uh studying the top game and trying to like apply passing and pressure. I was always more than happy to just be a laying on my back with the spider grips. So, uh that was kind of the first thing that that drew me in for sure. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: Absolutely. Speaker 2: Yeah, I did a couple local competitions. Um, never did like an IBJJF or anything. Um, and I I've only I haven't competed at all since blue belt. Um, with touring and traveling and all that kind of stuff, it's just sort of like, haven't been able to commit to um, like like a training camp kind of a thing. And then I also worried about injury, um, taking me off tour or like, you know, if I break a wrist or break some fingers, I'm I'm hooped. So, I've kind of not like sworn off competing, but it's just not really something that's on my radar. Um, I do travel a lot though and I drop into gyms. I think one of the like benefits of competing a lot is that you're training with people who aren't just your normal training partners and it makes your Jiu-Jitsu better. And I feel like I get a little bit of that, um, just by dropping into all these different gyms. So I get all kinds of different looks and different styles and um, yeah, so that's been I think that's been uh, I'm happy with that. I'm I'm I'm fine with not competing. Speaker 2: Yeah, um, I prefer no-gi lately. It's actually it's kind of funny that I'm on the podcast now because I've barely trained in the last two years. Like when I was in Brazil, we were talking, I got back surgery and like I've been kind of out of the game for for the last little bit. But when I was training a lot, I kind of really started to gravitate towards no-gi. Um, especially traveling. It was just disgusting carrying around like stinky gis everywhere and like laundry is a pretty rare thing when you're on tour living in a bus. So I'd have this stinky gi hanging up in the back of the bus that everyone else would have to deal with. So at a certain point I just said, you know what? I'm not I'm not bringing gis anymore. I'm just doing no-gi. And I was really a gi guy before before that. So I remember like I would drop into gyms as a purple belt no-gi and I'd get my guard would be getting passed by white belts because I was just I had without my grips, my spider grips, I had nothing. So it took me forever to get into it, but I really um, really have gravitated towards no-gi. Um, so I think that's a little easier on the fingers. I don't really do anything specific though to be honest with you. I think like at this point, um, like as a brown belt and just having trained so much, I kind of have a decent sense of when when I'm in danger and when not. Um, obviously like accidents can happen, but um, I just like I don't death grip anything. Like if I if I am training in the gi and someone's really like trying to yank like break my grip, I just let go. I'm like it's not worth it to me to break a finger holding on to a spider grip or a or a lapel grip or whatever. No-gi, same sort of thing, like if if I get the the inkling if I'm framing on someone and I feel like maybe they're they're going to shift their hip down and like it could pop my wrist or my elbow weirdly, I just whatever. I just bring my hands back and let them let them pass my guard. It's not uh it's not life or death. So, that's kind of like, yeah. So I just yeah, I feel like there I actually don't really do too much specific. I used to tape my fingers. Um, I don't even do that anymore. I just kind of I just kind of play safe and and and roll really chill, especially when I'm traveling. Speaker 1: That's great, man. Something you said there is something that I've I've uh I've I've picked up on pretty pretty recently myself actually. John Danaher kind of opened my eyes to the idea of grip fighting. I think that for a long time I had this incorrect idea of what grip fight of what effective and strong grip fighting was. I always thought it was, okay, man, you get good grips and they're kind of like inescapable grips. You want people to just be completely stuck in your grips. And John Danaher was explaining that it's really not that. It's about proper, it's about moving to the next grip once that one's broken. It's not overcommitting. It's always having the follow-up and always having an advantageous grip, whether it's inside or outside gripping. That's cool that you mentioned that because it's something that I, you know, I I I think that it sounds like your grip fighting game is is a is a more refined grip fighting game because you're not overcommitting to things. And then in turn, it's great for you because you're not hurting your fingers as much. So that that's really outstanding. Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. It it's like it's a double double whammy. It's like it keeps your hands safe, but also it's a, you know, just like you said, it's it's knowing when the current position is lost and trying to get ahead on the next one. And um, yeah, that's kind of how I treat my my grip fighting game for sure. Speaker 1: That's great, man. You know, it's funny. I you were talking about your back injury. We talked about that when you were here in São Paulo. In fact, thank you again for inviting me to the show. And I I wish so bad I could have made it, man. Unfortunately, we were just leaving town when you when you guys were here performing, but I definitely want to come I definitely want to come see you guys live next time you're around. Uh, but we were talking about how you you you're coming off a back surgery. And at the time I was I I've just now got back myself to training due to a neck injury. I was out for about like nine or 10 months. And uh, during that time I've picked up guitar again. I'm taking it really seriously. I have a I have a guy that comes to the house and teaches every week and I'm really, really enjoying it. But one thing that's going through my head is like, man, I'm going to go back to playing gi a lot now and I wonder how well my fingers are going to be performing on this guitar as I'm trying to like build up my my base and my fundamentals. I'm starting to think about committing to no more no-gi myself for the same reason. Um, because yeah, I I do like I I play a lot of sleeve grips and things like that in my game as well. Um, but yeah, it it it's it's something that it's something that I I know a lot of people that had that do work with their hands have to be mindful. I know I've known plumbers and things like that, people that work with their hands that are kind of like, dude, I I don't know if I can do this gi thing much longer now because it's really affecting my livelihood. Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. Yeah. Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. So let me ask you this. Um, uh, so with your back surgery, what did you have like herniated discs? What was going on? And was this Jiu-Jitsu related or was this something outside of Jiu-Jitsu that caused your back injury? Speaker 2: Uh, it was outside of Jiu-Jitsu. So it was a disc uh extrusion, I think they call it, where the disc actually breaks open and then some of the like the stuff comes out. So I was deadlifting one day. Um, we went, so we were on tour in the States and we we all got like, I think the norovirus or something. Like we we got deathly ill and it was like there's uh 12 of us that all travel on the bus together. So there's four band and eight crew. And it was sort of this thing where like two people would get it and then once they were starting to get over it, another two people would get it. And uh it just kind of ripped through the entire band and crew. Everyone was super sick. So I was one of the first ones that got it. And we came home from that tour and I was starting to feel a little bit better and I usually have a rule where after I get home from tour, I take like two or three days and I don't do anything. I'm just like, I'm usually bagged, especially if it's an overseas tour and I'm like jet lagged and stuff. I don't because that's like injury injury zone, right? Or making yourself sick again or whatever because you're just exhausted. But for some dumb reason, I decided, maybe it was just because like I was feeling a little bit better after getting so sick. I was like, I'll just do a little bit of light deadlifting today. And I did a couple pulls and they weren't even that crazy. And I woke up the next day and I was kind of like, oh, my my back kind of hurts. We went on another tour. Um, I like went to my physio. He said, yeah, you probably have a bulging disc, like just be careful. Um, don't train too much, take some time off lifting and Jiu-Jitsu and whatever. And we went on tour and everything was okay. And came home and we had to take our fence down in our backyard and my wife and I and our neighbor were out there kind of working away and I bent over to pick something up and it just popped. And it it broke open. I guess, I guess this is rare. It like the stuff came out of the disc, the like inner material and it went directly to the side. I guess usually they go they go backwards. This one went directly to the left and there's like a nerve root there and it like crumpled that nerve root. So I had like some I got nerve damage. I can still barely like lift my toes on my left foot. So the like Delahiva is out of the question on the left side now because I can't like pull my feet back. So it was it was brutal. And anyways, I ended up getting uh I had to get a a fusion. They removed the disc and I got hardware in there now and stuff like that. So, yeah, that was mid 20 when that when was that? 2024, I guess now. And then uh I went right I went back on tour right after surgery and that was kind of a mistake in hindsight. And it's kept me off the uh off the mat for a little while. So I'm actually taking a little bit of time off tour right now just to actually heal up and kind of get kind of get better because it was a it was a nasty uh a nasty injury. So it's affected not only Jiu-Jitsu obviously, but like uh performing live and everything too. Speaker 1: I can imagine. Yeah, that sounds terrible, man. Well, you know, something it was crazy. I I always appreciate talking to touring musicians that train because something that we hear a lot in Jiu-Jitsu is people saying like, man, my life is just busy. I don't have time to train as much as I'd like to. And and I'm not saying those aren't legitimate claims. I get it. Uh, but I it's it's nice seeing people that do have a truly hectic schedule of traveling and touring and performing and and everything that goes with that who are still able to commit to Jiu-Jitsu, still able to commit to their conditioning. Sounds like you lift weights as well on top of Jiu-Jitsu. Talk to me about that. How how do you how do you how do you, I guess, structure your training while you're out there touring the world playing music? Uh, because it sounds like you're you're able to stay consistent when you're not hurt. Speaker 2: Yeah, it's um, it's a bit of a challenge. Like I usually try the the challenge with tour is that I'm always busy in the evenings. That's when obviously showtime is. Um, and that's when the like vast majority of Jiu-Jitsu classes are. And it's not like dropping into a weights gym where you can kind of just go in whenever and get your workout in. Like you kind of got to drop in for a class or whatever. So I'll usually spend a little bit of time uh before tour just kind of Googling gyms in the area uh where we're playing, trying to find some where that has like a noon or a 1:00 p.m. class. Um, always try and look for no-gi. And in the States, it's really good. Like there's a gym everywhere. Like it's just there's gyms everywhere now, which is awesome. Um, it's a little bit trickier in Europe to find to find gyms. Um, but in the States, like pretty much everywhere we go has a gym. If I can find a noon class, I just I throw it in my calendar. So I'll just kind of like put them all in my calendar. I make sure I get a couple days off. I I don't train as much because on tour, like just with performing every night and sleeping on a moving bus and all this kind of stuff, like you're just not you're not getting the same recovery that you do when you're at home. So if I can get two or three days a week in, I'll I'll usually do that and then maybe one or two days of lifting uh per week kind of a thing and then also just making sure I have days off to just just kind of relax and hang out before the show. Speaker 1: That's great, man. You know, obviously like I've said, there there's uh Jiu-Jitsu's popularity has grown across a lot of different industries, music being one of them. There's a lot of musicians, a lot of famous musicians we know now who are who are really dedicated Jiu-Jitsu people. While you're out there on tour and kind of, you know, around the world, are you able to ever link up with other musicians that train as well? Or do have you other guys in the band, in your band that that you've gotten into Jiu-Jitsu as well? Um, I guess can you find training partners when you can't find a specific academy? Speaker 2: Yeah, I usually can. Um, especially now that I've been uh training on the road for a couple of years, a lot of these places uh that we revisit, I know people from the last time I was there. So sometimes if there's not a class, I can just like message somebody and be like, hey, like, do you want to find somewhere to go train? Like do you have a do you have a key to the gym or whatever? And usually if there's no class or whatever and I've been there before and I know somebody, we can usually make it happen. Um, you mentioned Matt Heafy from Trivium. I actually know him, I got connected with him through Twitch actually. It was actually I listened to him on this show. It was when I learned that he streamed on Twitch and it was kind of one of the reasons I started streaming on Twitch too actually was after listening to that that episode, which is cool. But um, yeah, I've so Matt and I have tried to link up a couple times on tour, but our schedules have never lined up. But I've trained at his uh his gym. He put me in touch with the guys at his gym in Orlando there. Um, and it was, yeah, it was awesome. And then I also bought some some of those like roll-up Dollamur mats and we throw those in the truck when we're traveling. So I got mats everywhere. So if I can't find anything, I'll try and rope some of the band guys into into rolling around a little bit and sometimes I'm successful, sometimes not, but yeah. Speaker 1: That's great. Have you have you gotten any of them into it? I mean, are any of the guys in your in your band in like into Jiu-Jitsu now because of you? Speaker 2: Uh, Nate was doing it a little bit before I got hurt. Um, and then it just was one of those things where like, uh, he's like a super beginner and it didn't really feel comfortable like dropping into gyms on on tour or anything. Um, like without going with me or whatever. Um, so he kind of he kind of stopped after I got hurt, but hopefully once I once I get back and we're training more, he'll he'll get back into it. He was good at it. He picked it up quick. Speaker 1: Speaking of like uh of maintaining discipline while traveling and touring, what does what does your diet look like when you're traveling? Because I know that's that's a big complaint for not not just people who are in bands, but people who travel for work. They just say, man, you end up in these traps of just fast food and late night eating and that kind of thing. Has that been a struggle uh as you've been touring and and if so, what do you do to what do you do to counter balance it? Speaker 2: Uh, yeah, it's huge struggle. My diet is absolutely terrible. I wish I could say it was better on or off tour, but it it's not. I'm like, uh, I've always been like a hard gainer, except for the last couple of years, but I was always like just this tiny, scrawny, scrawny little pipsqueak. So I could always get away with eating whatever I wanted and it not like affecting my weight or my health or anything. Since getting injured and, you know, sitting around a lot and being, you know, 35 years old now, it's uh, it's starting to catch up with me a little bit. So I always knew this day would come. I was saying this to my wife the other like a couple weeks ago. I was like, I always knew this was going to happen where I'd get to a situation where I I'm going to have to start taking it seriously and I think I'm I'm getting there now and I'm really terrible at it. So I got to I wish I had some some tips or some uh some insight there, but no, I just have a terrible diet. Speaker 1: You know what, man? I always say if it wasn't for Jiu-Jitsu, I would be like a morbidly obese guy because I I love I love food. I just I love food. And and the food that I love is not the most healthy food. So I I do have to like have some I I balance it out. I I'm on a pretty strict diet during the week and I I have a couple like I have like a cheat day once a week. But yeah, if it wasn't for Jiu-Jitsu, none of that would exist. I would just be a dude that eats all the time. So I I'm with you. I'm with you. I'm with you completely on that. Speaker 2: Candy is my big one. I just Oh, you're a sweets guy. Yeah, okay. Oh my god. Late night late night snacking like before bed. Oh, dude. I can I can put down Sour Patch Kids like you wouldn't believe. Speaker 1: Dude, I get stuck in this loop of uh of salty and sweet combination. Like if you ever have a you ever seen like at a party like where someone will have a bowl of like M&M's and peanuts mixed up in the same bowl. Dude, that's I'll sit there I'll just sit there on this couch just M&M peanut, M&M peanut. I get stuck in this like sweet salt uh abyss that I end up into. So but yeah, yeah. Well, man, I'll tell you what, uh Colton, we've reached about the halfway point of the show here, man. Let me play the the pummel game with you. Uh you you're well aware of the game. Again, I appreciate you listening to the show. And for anyone out there listening that's new to the show, uh the pummel is basically a series of random questions. Some of these are about Jiu-Jitsu, some of them have nothing to do with Jiu-Jitsu. But Colton, if you are ready to take on the pummel game, we are ready for you, my friend. Speaker 2: Let's do it. Speaker 1: By the way, guys, this week the pummel game is brought to you by BJJfanaticsgear.com, the best resource for BJJ gear online. The internet's full of cheaply made rash guards and tacky designs. BJJfanaticsgear.com offers the best materials available and refined designs for everybody. They've also got gis and shorts and shirts and anything else you may need. So check them out at BJJfanaticsgear.com. Question number one, what is the largest animal you think you could beat in hand-to-hand combat? Speaker 2: Oh, jeez. Uh, maybe like a small monkey. Speaker 1: I can appreciate that. Are we talking spider monkey? Are we talking like even even something even smaller, like one of those squirrel-sized monkeys? What what kind of monkey are we? Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe maybe spider monkey at the biggest. Speaker 1: Spider Okay, yeah. Yeah, I can I can appreciate that. We have we have guests every now and then that'll throw out things like gorilla or chimp and I'm just like, okay, all right, man. I appreciate your confidence, man. I appreciate your confidence. There's a few people that are like regular listeners that every episode they're like, I can't believe this guy said he'd fight a lion. I'm just like, I'm like, yeah, I know, I know. Uh, if uh if you found a genie lamp and uh normal genie rules apply, so no killing people, no wishing for more wishes. Uh, what would you wish for? Speaker 2: Oh, jeez. Um, okay, I'd wish for a healthy back. That'd be number one. Let's just get let's just scratch that injury right out of there. Um, I would wish for a billion dollars, why not? And I would wish for um, hmm, third one, hey? Man, that's that's a tough one. Another billion. Speaker 1: Another billion. I love it. Why not, man? Double down. Double down. Uh, if you have you ever had a supernatural experience? Speaker 2: Nope. Speaker 1: No, no aliens, no ghosts, nothing like that? Speaker 2: No, I wish. I wish I have, but nothing. Speaker 1: Cool, cool. Uh, do you have any tattoos? And if so, what's your favorite one? Speaker 2: I do. I got uh so I have one on my chest. I got it's like the um the International Taekwondo Federation logo with like some some kind of like this was I was 18 years old in like the early 2000s, so it's got some tribal stuff around it, right? It's classic. And then uh I have this uh Legend of Zelda sleeve here. I can show you most of it. This is definitely my favorite one. It's been it's almost it's almost fully done. Speaker 1: Oh, that's awesome, dude. Well done. Where'd you get that done? Was that up in Canada? Speaker 2: Yeah, that's just here in Regina. A guy named Chris Oakley. He's uh he's incredible, yeah. Speaker 1: Nice work, man. Yeah, really nice. Yeah, I uh um yeah, you so man, you were you were hard into Taekwondo then, huh? You got the whole federation across the chest. That's that's not a that's not a part-time dabbler in Taekwondo. I like it. Speaker 2: No, I was right in there. Speaker 1: That's great, man. Uh, what do you think is the worst job that you've ever had in your life? Speaker 2: Man, I've been pretty lucky with my jobs to be honest with you. Um, before being a touring musician, I was a a teacher, mostly a substitute teacher. Um, oh man. I I'd probably say that one, but it's not all bad. I would just say that like that job can be that job can be terrible and there's things about it that I really didn't like, but there were also things about it that I really, really loved. I loved working with the kids. Um, it was just all the administrative stuff and dealing with parents and kind of like all this extra crap that you had to do. Um, so that would be the worst probably, but also one of the best if that makes sense. Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, it's one of those one of those one of those double-edged swords. I I've known I've got friends that teach as well. I had one that taught in Atlanta, um, and liked it, worked with special ed special ed kids and really enjoyed it. I had another friend that was a teacher in Baltimore that was like, dude, that was rough. That was not not what I If you've ever seen like the the movie uh Stand by Me or whatever, it's kind of like, yeah, like one of those one of those or no, not Stand by Me. What was the one what was the one where uh uh the inner city school anyway. He he tough school is where he was teaching. So it depends on the experience, but even then he said, yeah, it's you know, it's nice knowing that you're making an impact and helping kids and hopefully putting them on a good trajectory. So I can I I feel you on that one. Um, what is something, what's a secret talent that you have that people might not know about? Speaker 2: Uh, um, oh man. I can ride the ride the unicycle. Speaker 1: Oh yeah? Okay. Speaker 2: Yeah, me and me and some friends when we were in like middle school, we all bought unicycles and we got into watching these guys like that did um like they're like skateboard tricks but like on unicycles. So we got into like doing like trick unicycling stuff. I haven't ridden one in probably over 10 years, but I think I probably still could. Um and since uh since getting hurt, I've been uh programming games. That's been kind of like I I got into it over COVID um when everything shut down, we weren't on tour. I didn't have kids at the time or anything, so I needed a new hobby and started learning how to code. Got really into it over COVID, went back on tour and normal life came in and I kind of did it here and there. Um but since getting hurt and not training, like basically all that Jiu-Jitsu time and focus and study has just been like programming. So I've been doing a lot of uh doing a lot of that lately. Speaker 1: That's really cool. What what kind of languages are you are you doing like Python, Ruby? What are you what are you what are you uh what are you for gaming? What what's the best thing these days? Speaker 2: Uh I just made a game. It's actually releasing on Steam today actually. Speaker 1: Oh no shit. Really? What's what's it called? What's it called? Speaker 2: It's called Spaceman. Speaker 1: I'm going to go download it. Speaker 2: Yeah, Spaceman, all caps. There's two Spaceman games on Steam. I'm kind of surprised they let me do this. I I didn't know until after I already like made the page and everything. But it's the Spaceman with all caps and the yellow the yellow logo, so you'll you'll see it. Um but I made that one with a framework called Love2D which uses um the Lua programming language. Speaker 1: Oh, cool. Nice. Nice. Yeah. I I was uh I've actually been kind of interested in dabbling in like Python and other stuff myself just for fun. Um but yeah, I have no idea what people are using these days for games because I know that that's a really fast moving area of programming. It's obviously like every year there's like a new new uh systems and new new graphics and things like that that advance quickly. So, very cool, man. Speaker 2: Yeah, if you if uh there's all kinds of like engines and stuff. Like I started with GameMaker, um, which is like it's got a level editor and a sprite editor and everything built in and kind of just like the thing that I've really fallen in love with making games is like the programming aspect. So I've been going more and more like lower level and and using so like this Love2D framework is just all text based. There's no there's no editor or anything like that. You just do everything through code. Speaker 1: Oh, wow. So it's like no there's no visual component to it. It's it's just basically you plugging in the code. Speaker 2: Yeah, you're just coding it all yourself kind of thing. So that's been super fun. But yeah, if you uh if you ever get started and you need some tips, just let me know, man. Speaker 1: Oh, hell yeah. No, I will for sure. That sounds fun. Is is it expensive to get started? Like like do you have to like how much are these how much are some of these uh platforms you're using or these Speaker 2: Uh they're like GameMaker, I think I paid maybe I think like you can download it and use it for free and then you pay 100 bucks when you want to release a game. Uh Love2D is totally free, Unity is free, um Godot is another popular one that's free. You can get started like as long as you got a laptop or something, you can get started pretty much for free. Speaker 1: That's incredible, dude. What a that sounds like a really cool hobby. Yeah. Are you are you a big are you a big gamer uh outside of creating games? Have you always been a big gamer? Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I always love games and computers and stuff like that. Speaker 1: Give me your top three favorite video games of all time. Speaker 2: Okay, um, uh, Ocarina of Time, Legend of Zelda, Ocarina of Time. That would be number one. That's kind of my default number one because it like blew my mind when I was a kid, got me into music and got me into video games and it's just got like a real special place in my heart. Um, I'd say the second one is this game called Outer Wilds that I played uh over COVID. That's probably the best game I've actually ever played. It's just that Ocarina of Time has that default number one. Um, but that game's incredible. It's like you're if you're into like exploration and puzzle, like most of I I really like indie games and like retro games and like puzzle games and that kind of stuff. This one's like you're exploring this little solar system and uh um trying to piece together this mystery. It's really, really, really, really fun, really cool. That'd be number two and then number three, uh, let's see. Hmm, probably I played this really cool game called uh, oh man, that's a tough question. Um, Return of the Obra Dinn, which is another kind of puzzle game where you're like this uh it's in like the 1800s or something. The story is this ship, this cargo ship goes missing at sea and then like a couple years later it washes back up and everyone on board is dead and you have to go in and sort of like piece together what happened on the ship and identify all the people that were on there and this kind of a thing. So it's kind of this big sort of it's almost like a big game of clue, but it's got like this really cool art style and amazing music and it was made by a solo developer named Lucas Pope. So that's another really, I've just never played anything like it. So that that'd probably be the top three. That's a tough question though. Speaker 1: That's awesome. No, that's great. The the second two, number two and number three, I actually hadn't heard of those games. I'll have to check those out. Speaker 2: Check them out. Yeah, if you're into that kind of like puzzle mystery exploration kind of thing, those are both fantastic. Speaker 1: I I've always liked those kinds of games. Like there was one when I was younger, uh you you remember Myst? Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Speaker 1: Yeah, Myst was like kind of the first game that I encountered like that where it was kind of like a exploratory puzzle solving kind of thing. And then there's there was a counter uh not a counter, a uh a sequel to that. I think it was called like like Riven or Rift or something. Speaker 2: Was it Riven? Speaker 1: Yeah, Riven. Yeah, yeah. Speaker 2: Yeah, if you like those games, you'll love these. Yeah. Speaker 1: Oh, dude, I'll check them out. I wrote them down already. And I'm I'm definitely going to download Spaceman. In fact, everybody today get when you hear this episode, get out get on uh get on Steam, download Spaceman. Let's support our boy. Um, let's see, what else? Uh, what is something that you wish you were better at outside of martial arts? Speaker 2: Uh, art, visual art. Yeah. Yeah, I'm not not very good at it. Um, and probably could get better at it if I put time into it, but just haven't really put uh haven't really put time into it. When I make games, I just I do pixel art, so I'm starting to get a little bit better at pixel art. Um, but like my wife's an incredible artist and that's an ability that I always wish I always wish I had was more natural at. Speaker 1: Yeah, good answer, man. I like it. Yeah. What is uh what do you think is your favorite, we talked about our diets. What's your favorite bad food to eat? Favorite junk food? Speaker 2: Oh man. Um, Speaker 1: Shout out Sour Patch Kids earlier, but Speaker 2: Yeah, I was going to say it's definitely some sort of like sour candy, probably Sour Patch Kids. I'm just trying to think if there's anything else that might eek it out. Nerds, I like Nerds a lot. Speaker 1: Nerds, Nerds. Yeah. You remember Warheads? Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, definitely. Speaker 1: Warheads those were like if you like sour stuff, it's great, but man, I feel like Warheads, they put some kind of chemical on that that I swear damages your tongue. Like I swear it's like it hurts, right? Yeah, it's like it's like a chemical weapon almost of like it's way too sour. Like it's like I get I get what they're trying to do, but it's like, man, it's a good name for the candy because it really does feel like a weapon almost of uh Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. Speaker 1: You know. Um, what do you think is your most hated food? What's something you cannot eat no matter what? Speaker 2: Hmm, uh, I'm I'm not very picky of an eater. I'm I really don't like pineapple on pizza. Okay. Um, all right. And my I can't remember what this is called. My dad lives in um Taiwan and I've gone out there and visited him a couple times and there was this like fermented Japanese like bean paste. And usually I'm into that kind of stuff, but I can't remember what it was called, but this stuff was absolutely disgusting. It was probably the worst thing I've ever tried. And I I'll eat anything. Like I love going to Taiwan and trying all the weird, the duck neck and all the weird stuff, the snake soup and like I'll eat I'll eat anything, but that stuff was disgusting. I can't remember what it's called. Speaker 1: I can't remember what that's called either, but it's come up on the show a couple times when I ask that question. And they say it smells literally like the worst fart you've ever smelled ever. It's supposed to be like really like pungent kind of. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I've I've never had it, but I I forget the name, but I do I do know what you're referencing. Yeah. Yeah. Um, what do you think is uh your most hated position in Jiu-Jitsu to get stuck in? Speaker 2: Uh, bottom mount probably. I'm terrible at getting out of bottom mount. I've always been bad at it. Um, I have like maybe blue belt level of bottom mount escape if I'm being generous to myself. Usually when I get stuck there, I just I just try and keep stay safe and I just sit there and wait for them to open up some space and hope I get lucky to get like a knee in or something like that because I'm just I'm just terrible at at getting out of there. Like if a big white belt gets on top of me, I'm just like, well, day's over. Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like this sucks, yeah. Speaker 2: Well, I think that's half the battle though is just what we we described is just wait. Like a lot of times you just can't force stuff. You do have to kind of wait for them. One of my one of my instructors back in the day used to always explain to me that like when you're in a bad position, you can there are certain things you can do, obviously, you can you can you know, set up some frames and start creating a little bit of space and stuff. But ultimately, if if the person is just controlling the position, you're you're safe. It's just it's just uncomfortable. But you when they in order for them to attack you and do something further than just pin you, they've they've got to create some space naturally. And so, yeah, so I think that's half the battle anyway, but I I do feel you. Yeah, there's nothing worse than just getting smothered, especially if they have like the big belly and they're just like, oh man, like several weight classes ahead of you, you know, and they're just sinking into your guts. It's horrible. Speaker 2: Yeah, it's terrible. Speaker 1: Um, who do you who do you think's your favorite grappler of all time? Speaker 2: Oh man. Um, to watch, probably Gordon. Yeah, good answer. I know it's kind of a basic, the basic answer. It's like people ask my favorite banjo player and I always say Earl Scruggs. It's like the most basic answer ever. But there's a reason those guys are the kings, right? Like so I I love watching. I just I love that really calm, chill style. Um, sort of just knowing what's going to happen and having an answer for everything. I just kind of maybe it's sort of like the laziness thing we were talking about earlier, but like I kind of relate to that style versus like a Roberto who's like super aggressive and like and crazy. I'm more of like a I like to go in and kind of relax and, you know, flow around a little bit and I like I like watching I like watching Gordon uh compete. Speaker 1: That's that's a great way you describe Gordon's game is is that he he he's aware of all the all the variables. It's just that's what it feels like. He just he knows the solution for whatever is yet to come and it's it is really something to watch. Yeah. Speaker 2: Yeah, and he lets his opponent do whatever they want, right? Like he's not like forcing anything. It's just you do what you want and I have an answer for it. And I just I really like that um approach to Jiu-Jitsu. Speaker 1: Yeah, and no, it's it's beautiful. It really is. I think it's like the kind of the epitome of of of what Jiu-Jitsu is, you know. Yeah. Um, what do you think, who do you think's your favorite MMA fighter of all time? Speaker 2: Oh, that's a good one. Probably GSP. I'm Canadian, so you know. Of course. He's a he's a national hero over here. Um Of course. Yeah, he's he's awesome. I've been really enjoying uh Jiri watching or Jiri or however you Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he's he's just crazy. Like I just I love that guy. I love his whole his whole shtick and his whole vibe. He's been he's been a blast too. But yeah, probably GSP number one. Speaker 1: Great answer. Great answers. Uh, what do you think is um your biggest phobia? Speaker 2: Oh man. Um, I don't think I have too many. It'd probably be heights. Heights. Um, or maybe like enclosed spaces. Like the thought of getting stuck in an elevator really freaks me out. Yeah. Um, heights freak me out. But both of those are still pretty low. Like I don't have any uh like really debilitating phobia. Speaker 1: Yeah. Do you think being in being in Jiu-Jitsu for as long as you have has helped with your uh claustrophobia at all? Speaker 2: For sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you kind of get over that pretty quick. Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. That's that's something I've noticed as well. Although, I'll tell you what gets me, man, and this isn't like necessarily a phobia. It's just that when I see this or watch anything about it, I my I start sweating is when people are like doing that um like when they're uh free exploring in caves and they get to spots where it's like they're like in a tunnel that's barely wider than their body and they're having to like shimmy their shoulder, bro. Like it makes me want to vomit if I think about it too much. It's like I I would absolutely freak out. Yeah. No no amount of Jiu-Jitsu makes me feel better about that. Speaker 2: No, there's nothing. Dude, and like yeah, that Nutty Putty cave thing. I don't know if you know about that one, the guy who like climbed into that. He like it's sad story because the guy ended up dying, but like he it was some cave explorer, he crawled into this thing. You can Google like if you just Google Nutty Putty cave, you'll see the like position that he got himself into. He was just exploring this tiny little thing that was barely big enough for his body. And I guess he thought there was a way out going down and he just got stuck in this like little crevice and they tried to get him out for hours and hours and they just couldn't get him out. Speaker 1: I'm I'm going to I'm going to regret this, but I'm going to Google image search to see the position. Oh, Jesus, no. Speaker 2: Yeah, you'll see just like the the diagram. Oh, that's like the worst. Oh god, bro. I can't even worst way to go, man. Oh dude, that that's no, that gives me the creeps, dude. That's horrible. Rest in peace to that guy, but jeez, dude, what a way to go. Yeah, no, yeah, no, there's no amount of Jiu-Jitsu that's ever going to make me feel better better about something like that. Speaker 1: Um, what do you think is your um what's your biggest pet peeve? What what's something that really uh really irritates you? Speaker 2: Oh, uh inefficiency. Like when something's taking longer than it needs to, it drives me absolutely insane. Like I hate like when you have a meeting about something and it's like, okay, we're going to meet about and then it just ends up being like social club, like we're just chit chatting. I'm just like, dude, like let's chit chat after. Can we just do the can we just do the meeting? Like that drives me crazy. And this is like like traveling and being in airports and stuff all the time, it's just like it drives me absolutely up the wall. The like just the the inefficiency or like dallying like when you're waiting for somebody and they're just you're late for something and they're taking their time. It just like, oh my god, it drives me absolutely insane. That's definitely my biggest pet peeve. Speaker 1: Dude, that gets me too. I tell my wife, we have a we have a running thing where I say, I call them in the way people. And it's just people that like have no sense of like a line of people behind them as they're fucking around at the register or like, yeah, or like a guy that's like blocking traffic because he's not paying attention. Dude, in the way people. Speaker 2: No urgency. It's like, don't you have somewhere to go? Like you're in your car right now because you're trying to get somewhere. Like what are you what are you doing? Speaker 1: It's like Tuesday at 3:00, sir. What are you what are you out here holding up the rest of the world for? Yeah. What uh what do you think is um your favorite comedian? You have a favorite comedian? Speaker 2: Oh, um, probably Louis C.K. Speaker 1: Good answer. Speaker 2: He's he's like, I don't think anyone's made me laugh harder than than he has. Um, some of those specials, he had like a run of three or four in a row that were just like I would just howl. I would just like be crying laughing so hard. He's the, yeah, I think he's probably he's probably my favorite. Speaker 1: That's a great answer. Since having kids, I've appreciated his humor more and more too. Cuz like his like his Fig his Fig Newton's bit bit that he does the Fig Oh, bro. Fig Newtons, yeah. Oh, dude, that's like one of my favorite lines. And it's funny because I find myself in those situations where I'm just tired and run down and my kids are like arguing with me about little stuff. It's like, it's like, dude, they're four. Don't engage. Don't don't argue with them. Like, okay, fine, Spider-Man's green, whatever. Let him say whatever stupid thing. You know what I mean? Like he's he's four, you know? But it's like there's some days where you're just like, no, he's not, dude. He's not green. He's not green. He's blue and he's blue and red, you know? So yeah, I try not to but dude, Louis C.K. is great. Speaker 2: He's so funny. Speaker 1: Um, who's a historical figure that you would have liked to meet? Speaker 2: Um, maybe Teddy Roosevelt. Speaker 1: Good answer. Speaker 2: He's uh, yeah, just the ultimate badass. Every now and again, I'd probably like every couple of years I'll find myself reading the Wikipedia entry on Teddy Roosevelt just because some of the stories about him are are hilarious. He's like a he's a a type of person from a bygone era. They just don't make Teddy Roosevelts anymore. None of them exist. So it's he's uh, yeah, pretty pretty badass, pretty remarkable guy. Speaker 1: Absolutely. You know, he's one of the first Americans to do Jiu-Jitsu too. I don't know if you knew that or not. Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, that's really cool. Speaker 1: Um, final question for the pummel game, Colton, if a zombie apocalypse breaks out right now in Canada, what's the first thing you do? Speaker 2: Um, packing up the wife and kids and going to my buddy Marlin's place. He lives in a little town called Melfort in Northern Saskatchewan. He's a hunter, so he's got he's got guns, he's got uh he's got everything you need. Um, I'd feel very uh I'd I I would trust him with my with my life and the my family's lives. So that would be that would be number one. We'd pack get in the truck and go go to Marlin's. Speaker 1: I was going to assume that Marlin had some firepower at his house. That's that's yeah, that's That's excellent, man. Colton, that was the final question for the pummel game. Congratulations, you win. You got your double underhooks. Speaker 2: All right. Hell yeah. Speaker 1: And once again, guys, the pummel game was brought to you by BJJfanaticsgear.com. Head over to the website to check out the very best gear on the market. Uh, so man, let me let me uh run you through a few more questions here. So we were talking about um uh music and kind of some of the crossover between Jiu-Jitsu that happens. What similarities have you noticed if any between learning Jiu-Jitsu and learning to play an instrument? Is there any any any correlating concepts or things that you've noticed that are similar? Speaker 2: Yeah, I think from like a like a higher level kind of view, they're they're similar in that in order to get good, you just need to put in a lot of reps. Um, so with Jiu-Jitsu, you just got to practice your technique over and over and over again until it becomes comfortable. When you're rolling, you got to just roll and roll and roll and roll. There's nothing, there's no secret formula that's going to get you better besides just doing the thing a lot. And it's the same thing with music. Like if you want to get you want to be like you were saying you're playing guitar. I mean, maybe there's some like maybe there's some sort of way you could conceive of guitar or like there's some sort of practicing you could do that would increase your efficiency your progress per hour or something could get a little bit higher, but really at the end of the day, what you have to do is you just have to sit there and just play the guitar a lot if you want to get good at guitar. Um and it's the same thing with Jiu-Jitsu. And it really I think that's the same with learning anything. It's just doing the thing a lot. And that's kind of like um yeah, kind of the big lesson I've learned from the band and from Jiu-Jitsu. Like I I I was really, really scared of going on stage in the early days of the band. And now it's like, you know, you don't I don't feel anything when I'm up there basically. It's just like it's become so comfortable and I think if you want to be a good um musician, first you got to sit there and play the guitar a lot, but if you want to be a good if like if you want playing guitar in front of people is different than just playing guitar. So if you want to get good at that, you have to do that specific thing. I think if you want to compete in Jiu-Jitsu, you have to compete a lot, right? You just have to get used to competing to the point where competing feels like a normal just a normal day. Like it's just not anything bigger than that in your head, I guess. And that's um, yeah, I think like the only way to do that is to just do that specific thing a lot. So if you want to be a high-level competitor, it's not enough to just train in the gym and then compete once or twice a year. I think you have to be competing all the time because that's the only way that you're going to be able to get competition feeling normal. If you want to be a musician that plays in front of people, sure, you got to practice on your own a lot and that's like sort of the lower level skill building part of it, but then there's sort of the higher level performing is its own thing and then you have to get you have to get to a point where performing feels totally comfortable and you don't get that adrenaline response. Um, so it's that same sort of thing with with anything, I think. It's like there's kind of the there's like a skill you got to increase your skill in the thing and you do that just by sitting there and doing that work on your own, but then if there's like if there's a you want to compete or you want to perform in front of people or you want to, I don't know, you want to be a public speaker, you have to, you know, you have to learn you have to practice writing speeches, but then you also have to just do a lot of speeches to get good at it. So, um, yeah, I think just sort of the idea that the only way to get comfortable, at least for me, the only way to get comfortable with something, there's no like sports psychology or kind of like this sort of thing to like make you more confident on stage. It's just like getting on stage as much as you possibly can until it becomes normal. Speaker 1: That's great. I love that, man. Yeah, I love that. And that that's been something I've come to realize as well. Like like when I look at competitors that I train with, real serious competitors, they really do treat a competition on a Saturday as if it's just an open mat. I mean, they they've done it so many times. And it's something that I realized in my own journey, like I would get real nervous before competitions and I realized, well, yeah, it's because you're competing like once every six months, you know, like back when I was competing more as like a blue and purple belt. It would be these long stretches between them. So it became this big sort of mountain that I'm about to jump up and climb on uh versus something that we just do frequently. And yeah, I love I love the idea of um exposing yourself constantly to to to those things to make it very normalized. Um that I could see that being very uh transferable between both music and Jiu-Jitsu. Talk talk to me about stage fright. So as you mentioned, you were you were obviously uh uh you're comfortable now now that you're now that you're doing this professionally for a long time. But when you were going through that period of when you were afraid to be on stage and and and very nervous, what do you think clicked for you once you started doing it enough? Because obviously the first handful of times were were probably pretty rough, right? Speaker 2: Yeah, um, I don't know. I don't even know if there really was a clicking point. Like I think it was just sort of this gradual thing where every time I got on stage, I was maybe a little bit less nervous than the previous time, right? Um, and that was it. Like there wasn't sort of this like switch that clicked in my head. It wasn't kind of like, oh, you just like imagine all the audience members naked or like, you know, like people give you those tricks and that kind of thing. Like it was just it was honestly just exposure. And it is one of those things, it's like you said, like when you're competing and you're watching the high-level guys compete and you see how calm they are, we kind of like, I think sometimes when you it's like you we can get it backwards and and we go, okay, well this guy is like, he's not treating the competition as like he's super calm and not treating the competition as a big deal. So then I need to get my like I need to do that to my psychology. But the re it's like it's backwards because the reason that he's the reason he has that psychology is because he's competed so much. So it's like if you're trying to emulate the psychology, you're kind of like putting the cart before the horse whereas like you just need to do that thing until it becomes normal for you. And where that where that point is going to be is probably different for everybody. Um, but like yeah, for me, it was just like just getting on stage and doing it and like even even per tour, still the first like show or two, one or two shows on a tour, especially if we've had like a long break, I'm a little bit nervous up there, right? I'm like heart rate's going a little bit, but then by like show three, it's just, you know, totally back, totally back to normal, totally calm. Um, so yeah, I don't know. I I I uh I hope I'm explaining that the kind of point I'm trying to make well where it's sort of like, yeah, I think like um, I think Danaher's talked about this too, but like the reason he talks about why his athletes are so confident, it's not because he's like telling them, yeah, you're the man, like you're going to go out there and you're going to they're confident because they've competed so much against the highest level guys in the world. Like there's no nothing is going to give you Gordon Ryan confidence besides just competing at that level that Gordon Ryan competes at. Like it's just sort of yeah, it's just it's just like I think the the like I don't know, the mindset follows the behavior maybe is what I'm trying to say rather than the other way around. Speaker 1: Yeah, one of the one of the most uh uh impactful things I heard Danaher say, he actually said it in an Instagram post. He was talking about the illusion of competition and how he says half the battle is just understanding that, you know, when you go to a big event like an ADCC, let's say, let's say the world championships, man, there's lights, there's the the announcer from Pride, there's, you know, laser shows almost, there's fire, there's all this crowd. He says it's all really just an illusion. He says if you eliminated, if you took all the if we were in a simulation and you just deleted those layers of the simulation, it's just you and another person doing Jiu-Jitsu on a mat. You know, it's it's what you do every day all the time. And um, I think there's that was that was a really cool way to look at it is that yeah, a lot of times the things that that are not directly impacting you can be very distracting, you know? And I imagine for playing live, like obviously you you you play banjo wonderfully uh and and and whether or not you're playing in front of a crowd of 10,000 people or by yourself in your in your basement, it's it's you're playing the banjo. It's it's it's what you're it's just your skill that you're doing. Uh but sometimes I could but I could see where it's like, man, now this is different than playing in my basement. I'm playing in front of a huge crowd of people. Uh, you know, I I could see where that would throw you off a little bit, but yeah, it's interesting how it really is just an illusion at the end of the day, isn't it? Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good point. And maybe maybe that's what like I hadn't thought of this, but maybe that's like what becoming more comfortable with doing the like performing or competing is is sort of like maybe you get better at like not paying attention to the distractions. Like I think like when when we're on stage playing, it's like um, I'm just thinking about my parts and what the other guys are doing. I'm not really thinking about the crowd all that much. But when I think about the early days, yeah, I was probably thinking mostly about the crowd and less about my playing. And maybe maybe that's kind of what as you as you get more experience doing the thing, maybe it's just sort of like this you kind of get to sort of learn how to cull out everything that isn't important to what you're doing. And I think like high-level performers and competitors, maybe that's maybe that's the difference is that they're they're able to just focus on the the essential thing that they're doing and not the uh not the illusions. Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. Something else I found really interesting too is just how how we learn how to learn things based on other things we've learned in the past. Like it's kind of funny like so I you did music first and then Jiu-Jitsu, correct? You were a musician first. That's what I thought. So so for you, it was music first and then learning Jiu-Jitsu. For me, it's been Jiu-Jitsu first and learning music. And so what I've found is that all the like my Jiu-Jitsu has prepared me to learn how to learn better if that makes sense. Like when I try I've I've been joking, I've been trying to learn guitar for like 30 years. And what happens with me is I'll practice it for like two days and then it collects dust for the next four years. And I'll say, hey, you know what? I'll grab yeah, I'll see like a a Black Sabbath documentary and I'm like, oh dude, I want to break out my guitar and I'm all motivated to play guitar again. Play for a week, put it away again. And so I I think that I I I Jiu-Jitsu has taught me that man, you really do like you said, it's it's a lot of the power of repetition, uh the importance of fundamentals, learning learning the fundamental pieces and that you really can't go much further without learning those and paying attention to them. And then also having like specific intent-driven drills and and and and and exercises to learn things. Like for guitar, it's like like a spider walk on you learn how to like walk with your fingers back and forth and you try different patterns. Those are things that before Jiu-Jitsu, you couldn't do you couldn't have used a hammer to beat that into my head and and and made it stick. I was just the most I was the worst student ever. Uh and it wasn't until Jiu-Jitsu taught me how to learn things properly that I've been able to kind of learn other things in life. Have you found that music and being and learning and being a musician and learning how to play music has helped you in your journey of learning Jiu-Jitsu? Is is there similar models that you have that have been applicable? Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. I think like learning how to learn is one of the best skills you could develop if you want to like get good at anything. Um, it's kind of a hard, it's sort of hard to articulate what that even means though. It's something I kind of think about quite often actually because I feel like um, like with Jiu-Jitsu, um and with banjo, like I've I've gotten decent at both of those things. Um, and I think like if I do have a strength, I I like I don't think I'm the most like like uh naturally technical musician. I'm definitely not like a super like naturally strong or super athletic person, but I think like what I what I have gotten kind of good at is just sort of learning how to learn. Um and how to take things and break them down like you said into kind of the most fundamental building blocks and understanding those those building blocks and building up from there. It's the same thing with like I've been I mentioned earlier been coding a lot. It's the same sort of thing like just breaking down what each line of code is doing from kind of like the the simplest like I tell people all the time like coding is actually not that hard. It's really just pure logic. It's just that you're just structuring these really simple or sort of stringing these little simple building blocks together to make something more complex. And that's everything. Like everything can be broken down into the kind of the tiniest building blocks of whatever the thing is that you're trying to do. And then another thing too is just being like um sort of developing a sense of your own strengths and weaknesses within that thing and just being able to like objectively and honestly assess your own skill in something and chasing your strengths but also working on your weaknesses and um um yeah, I wish I I wish I had like an actual step-by-step like, you know, objective kind of here's how you do it, but it's it's kind of more of an abstract uh abstract idea, I guess. But um yeah, just like being able to assess where you are in a skill versus where you'd like to be and breaking things down into the most fundamental, simplest, easiest like ways to conceive of the thing in your head, I think is like it's been huge for learning anything. Speaker 1: Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. You know, it's funny too, like when I think back to like wanting to learn music as a kid, I remember I remember foolishly convincing myself that people that some people were just like, oh, well, he plays so well because he's just naturally, he's very naturally talented and I'm just not and I you know, I don't think I don't think I'm going to ever get good at this. And I see people making that same same mistake of thought in Jiu-Jitsu as well. Like they see people that, you know, accelerate through the belt ranks or do well in competition while they're kind of struggling, not realizing that man, you know, everyone goes through struggles. In fact, that's that's a big thing I've learned from doing this show for 10 years is the amount of people I've talked to that I assumed would have had great success in competition from the very beginning is very, very, very small. Like I was talking to Buchecha. Buchecha was talking about how he lost like every match he ever did up until like blue belt or something like that. He was like had really, really rough run. In fact, Bernardo, Bernardo Faria, they had same thing. He had a real rough rough time early on. And he just kept showing up. And you have to understand the power of just continuing to show up. And I think that's one thing that as a young guy, I didn't understand with guitar and with music is that it's not that these guys just picked up a guitar and started shredding. They had to sit there and they had to play Mary had a little lamb a thousand times and they had to learn their chords and they had to learn their progressions and they had to learn their, you know, their, you know, their their their skills, the fundamentals. Uh and it's and it's nice for people to hear that in Jiu-Jitsu especially because it is such a difficult thing to get good at, but anyone that you see from Gordon Ryan to Marcelo Garcia to Roger Gracie to any of them, they all went through their they they put in their dues and they all struggled and it's just a matter of continuing to show up, you know. Speaker 2: Yeah, that's honestly consistency is the biggest the biggest thing. Like people ask me um like banjo advice for beginners all the time. And my number one thing I always say is just like whatever gets you picking up the banjo every day, just do that. Like don't make it a chore for yourself. Don't make it like, you know, if you want to play clawhammer style, then play clawhammer. You want to play with a guitar pick, play with a guitar pick. You want to play with your feet, who cares? Play with your feet. Like whatever the thing that you're doing is, like the only way you're going to get better at a thing is just by doing that thing a lot and you're not going to do it a lot if you don't enjoy it. So just do whatever it takes to make you enjoy it. And if you don't like like if you don't like playing banjo and you learn that, you know, you just you you pick it up for, you know, every now and again and then you're just not interested in it, then that's fine. Like you don't have to you don't have to play the banjo, right? Like it's just kind of like find the things that you like doing and and uh if you really do seriously want to get better at something, you just have to figure out a way that it's not going to be a chore for you to to to pick it up and do it every day. Like I think like Buchecha and Gordon and all these guys, I think all these top guys, if I was a betting man, I would say they probably all enjoy Jiu-Jitsu. It's probably not a a huge chore for them to train every day, right? Um, so it's like, yeah, first of all, it's just sort of picking like sometimes people I think they like I I I've spoken with some like people who want to they think they want to learn how to play the banjo, but then they just they're like, oh, I just I'm not consistent with it and I I never pick it up. And it's like, well, maybe you just like listening to banjo music and you don't really want to play it and that's fine too. Like you got other things in your life that I'm sure you're interested in and that you're really good at. Like, I don't know. So it's just sort of like, yeah, the anyways, broader point I'm trying to make, I guess is just consistency is key and not making something a chore for yourself. Like make it fun for yourself and just that's how you're going to get better at it. Speaker 1: Absolutely. Yeah, very well said, man. You know, Colton, tell me about the the formation and and the vision of the Dead South because I mean, you guys have a really unique style. It's like bluegrass, but it's like the energy of a rock show. I I really haven't seen other bands like you guys. And I really I really appreciate the originality of the band. How did the band come together and uh how would you describe, I guess, the evolution of the band? How did it evolve into what it what to what it is today? Speaker 2: So we started back in, I think it was 2012. Um, I was on the wrestling team in university and um, there were these two brothers, my good friends uh Galen and Connor and they um were roommates with Nate, who's the singer in the Dead South. So I met Nate through them. And I had just gotten a banjo. I was like 21 years old. My mom, I was in this sort of this phase where I was collecting all these uh different instruments. I had like a sitar and like a bunch of weird kind of uh odd instruments and banjo was one that I I got for like a birthday present or something and I was kind of learning it. And I went over to uh my my teammates' place and Nate was there and he was watching, I don't know if you know the band Trampled by Turtles. They're kind of in our same sort of genre. Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I don't know them. Speaker 2: They're they're sweet. Check them out. Speaker 1: Yeah, I will. Speaker 2: Um, yeah, and he was watching a music video by Trampled by Turtles and he was kind of in a phase where he was sort of learning some acoustic guitar and we kind of got chatting. He was like, oh, it'd be fun to like play in a band like this kind of music is kind of cool. I'd never grew up listening to bluegrass or anything. I was like metal and punk and rock and that kind of stuff. So we started jamming and um, started playing like open mics and just local shows and had a couple lineup changes in the very early days. And then um, yeah, it just kind of went from there. Like it was just sort of playing at the local bar and um, we had this thing where every show we played, we'd wear the same, we'd all wear like a plaid shirt or we'd all wear the same hat or something like that. The one day we did like the white shirts with the black suspenders and we were like, oh, that's kind of cool. Maybe we'll do that again next time. And since then, it's sort of evolved. Everyone's kind of got their own hat. Nate wears the the jacket. I got like a different kind of tie and it's just sort of like, it's sort of like a one step at a time thing. There wasn't sort of like, hey, this is like we're going to make a band that looks like this. It was more just like we just started jamming and just sort of like one step at a time things kind of became what they became. And we were we kind of had like we're all sort of on the same page in the early days because this was 2012, so this is like Mumford and Sons were huge and there were many like dudes, four dudes in their early 20s with beards playing uh playing folk music. There was a like a lot of that was happening at that time. So we kind of knew we needed some sort of visual thing to set us apart, which is why we always did the the hat, the same hat or whatever. Um and then yeah, just kind of the black pants and the white shirts and suspenders sort of stuck. And yeah, and then we had uh the In Hell I'll Be in Good Company video blew up. Um we made that video, someone posted it on Reddit. Um it made it to the front page of the listen to this and music subreddits. And we got accused of paying people at Reddit to to post this for us. I swear to God, we never did. We never paid anybody. And then that blew up on YouTube and it went kind of crazy on YouTube and then that's kind of how the career got started. So that was sort of the the kicking point where we could all start to uh turn this into a career. Speaker 1: That's incredible. That's so cool. I just realized the super obvious question that I should have added to the pummel game before. Give me your top three favorite bands. You said you said you grew up listening to a lot of metal and punk and that's your top that's my world right there. So what what are some what are like your top three favorite bands of all time? Speaker 2: Oh man, top three of all time, all genres, everything? Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll say all genres. Speaker 2: Um, oh man, okay. Um Queens of the Stone Age would probably be up there. Speaker 1: Yes, yes. Speaker 2: I love Queens of the Stone Age. Anything Josh Homme does, I I love. Speaker 1: Did you like Kyuss? Speaker 2: Yeah, I love Kyuss. Speaker 1: Kyuss is one of my favorites for sure. Speaker 2: Kyuss is great. Yeah. Everything he does, man. Yeah. Um, Lamb of God would probably be in there. Um, Trivium would be in there too. Uh, top three of all time though, man. Uh, Speaker 1: I'll expand it to five. Give me five. Speaker 2: Five. Okay. All right. Let's go let's go um, okay, what did I say? I said Lamb of God, I said Speaker 1: You said Lamb of God, Queens of the Stone Age and Trivium. Speaker 2: Queens of the Stone Age, Trivium. Um, let's do probably the Beatles. We actually just uh we just got back from London. We just finished recording our next album at Abbey Road. Oh, cool. Um so that was really cool. We recorded in the same room that Dark Side of the Moon was recorded in, which I didn't even know that until like the last day we were there. I was just like, oh my god. Oh, no way. It's crazy. Yeah, so it was that that was pretty wild. So Beatles, Lamb of God, Trivium, Queens of the Stone Age, one more. Let's go with um, oh dude. Uh, Veil of Maya, this band that I've been really, really into for the last couple of years. Speaker 1: I actually don't know them. I'm going to write that down too. You're giving me all kinds of stuff to check out today, man. We got between video games and other music. Yeah, Veil of Maya. Good list. Yeah, I like that. It's funny. I we're sitting here on on the pummel game. I'm here with sitting here with a professional musician. I didn't think that didn't think to ask the top favorite music uh question. So just just when you think the pummel's over, I pull you back in, right? Speaker 2: Yeah, it's all good. Speaker 1: So uh yeah, let me ask you this. What do you think um you guys you've obviously been all around the world at this point. What are some places that you guys have not done tours yet that you'd really like to visit? Speaker 2: Japan. Definitely Japan. I I don't know why. I've never been to Japan. I really want to go. And for some reason, I just have this inkling that I think if it caught on there, it could go really well. I think with like the the outfits and the the kind of the dancing, the sort of like gimmick of the whole thing, I think I I again, I've never been there, so I'm sort of like psychologizing Japanese culture, but I for some reason, I feel like it could be a it could be a hit over there. I could get a little Funko pops made of us and that kind of thing and just the whole Western theme and that kind of thing. Um, but we just don't really have a foot in the door. Like we've we've we've talked with our management about getting a tour out there. Um, but like promoters, they really look at sort of like your your where the streams are coming from and like we don't have much in Asia. It's all like Europe and North America uh predominantly, South America a little bit now, like we did our first Brazil run at the end of last year. Um, but yeah, just nothing nothing really going on there in Asia. I would love to get out there at some point though. I don't know I don't know how to make it happen, but that's definitely the number one spot. Speaker 1: That would be Yeah, Japan's probably my top list of places I want to go now. It it's it's interesting what you said too is that man, when when something takes off in Japan, like it really becomes like its own subculture almost. Like there's I I remember talk like talking to a lot of fighters and stuff over the years. There have been like really like even like some kind of like mid mid-tier, mid-card guys um who who fought briefly in Pride or whatever. They'll say, dude, I go over there, I find comic books about myself. Like not featuring me, like about me. Like it's me, it's my comic book. And it's like, dude, I fought like twice in Pride and like one fight I won, the other I lost. I wasn't anything like spectacular in Pride, but they've got comic books and they've got action figures of me and it's like there's there's a cool there's also like a big uh punk rock scene in in in Japan and like they really like once they get into once they latch on to um uh a culture from the outside, like man, they really do kind of grow their own scene from within. It's really neat to see. So I totally could see that happening for you guys for sure. Speaker 2: I could too. Yeah, it's just how do we how do we make it happen? That's the the plotting and scheming I've got to do. Speaker 1: That's right. You'll figure it out, I'm sure. How how was how was the turnout in Brazil? Did you guys have a pretty good pretty good show in São Paulo? And where else did you go? Speaker 2: Dude, it was fantastic. It was uh it exceeded expectations. We were in São Paulo, Porto Alegre, um, Curitiba, and what the hell was the other one? Belo Horizonte. Those were the four. So it was just those four shows. Um, we had heard about like, you talking about like rabbit fans, Brazil is also known for for rabbit fan bases and yeah, they were great. Like it was our first time out there. The first show was like a little bit, it was kind of some every now and again we get booked in these like soft seater theater kind of vibes and it's just not really our it's not really our vibe. Like everybody sitting and kind of like clapping politely and no one really knows if they can stand up and party. Like we like it when there's like standing room and people are loud and talking in between songs and like when you when you finish a song and it's just dead silent, you're like tuning your banjo, it's just like, oh my god, you're like under the microscope. It's so nerve-wracking. But when it's like it's when it's like kind of just you hear all the babble and everyone's kind of whatever, it's I don't know. Um so the first one was a little bit it was a little bit weird, but the other ones were crazy. They were just absolutely absolutely nuts. The fans went went wild. They were like between, I don't know, maybe 700 to 1,000 cap rooms that we were doing, which for the first time there is, you know, nothing to sneeze at. So, um, yeah, we'll definitely be coming back. The the fans were they were crazy. They were like nuts. Like there was one, I can't remember what show, but like we couldn't even couldn't barely even get into the the van to go back to the hotel after because there was just this giant throng of people and like they were they were like intense fans. So it was really cool. Speaker 1: That's awesome. Yeah, Brazil has that reputation, man. There's always kind of the joke of uh online of come to Brazil. Like there's always the comments like no matter where you are in the world, come to Brazil. And they and they do, man. They really turn out and show up and like make the bands want to come back. There there was a um I was just watching a clip the other day. I think it was like System of a Down. Yeah, in fact, it was System of a Down. They were posting videos of their São Paulo show. Dude, it looked like the world was ending. There was like flares and like fires going off and like the mosh pit was like this big swirling kind of mosh pit. I mean, they really do go hard. So for bands, that's got to be super cool to be like on stage being like, whoa, dude, like this is we're we're performing for this. This is awesome, you know. Speaker 2: Yeah, it's crazy. Like coming from where we came from, just like some guys in Saskatchewan that played open mics and didn't expect anything to happen, going down to Brazil and having these people just go nuts is it's pretty wild. Speaker 1: That's super cool. Well, yeah, man, guys, if you're out there listening, check out the Dead South on Spotify and Apple Music and anywhere else music is consumed. And if they come to your town, go see them. Uh their banjo player is one of us. So get out there and uh see them live. They've got a great show, great energy, great music. So, uh Colton, man, in closing, what are some of your big goals for 2026? What are some things you uh you hope to accomplish this year? Speaker 2: Uh, oh man, that's that's a good one. Um, so like I said, I'm taking a little bit of time off touring actually. Like we just went and did this album. Um I'm just trying to get my get my back back to normal and get my get my uh my kind of health back to where it where it needs to be. Um so that would be probably number one goal is just sort of take the time I need and and properly heal up. Um goal number two, like I said, I've been going hard with the the game programming stuff. Um just releasing one coming out today. If I could release another game or two, even just small games this year, um just keep getting better at that. Um, yeah, that would probably be the the top two goals. Get the get the health back and get and uh yeah, release some more games. Speaker 1: That'd be great, dude. You should make a Dead South, you should make a Dead South zombie game where like your main tool is like a banjo, you just smash zombies with banjos. That'd be dope. Speaker 2: That's a good idea. Yeah, I like that. That'd be really cool. Yeah. Speaker 1: Well, folks, unfortunately, we're fresh out of time. Colton, I've thoroughly enjoyed this conversation, my friend. Thank you for taking the time to be here. Thank you again for being a long-time listener of the show as well. It's been super cool getting to know you uh through through our chats on Instagram over the years and you're welcome back anytime. I'd love to have you back again in the future. Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks so much, man. It was really cool to be on. I appreciate it. Speaker 1: Excellent. Of course. For anyone out there that wants to keep up with Colton and the Dead South, it's real easy to do so. They're on Facebook. Uh he's got a personal page, Colton Crawford, and uh of course the band is The Dead South. So make sure you follow them there. Uh same thing with Instagram, The Dead South and then The Colton Crawford on Instagram. Uh the YouTube channel is for The Dead South. Make sure you subscribe and hit the bell icon to get notified for when they add new videos. They got a new album they just recorded, Colton was saying. So uh make sure you're subscribing and staying notified so you can be aware of when that drops. The website is thedeadsouth.com. That's where you guys can see tour dates, uh merchandise and everything else. And then if you guys are on Twitch, Colton's got an awesome Twitch channel. It's Colton Crawford on Twitch. You can watch him play banjo, uh pick his brain about video games, programming and everything else going on. So, check him out at Colton Crawford on Twitch. And that's going to do it for this episode, everybody. I really appreciate you tuning in. Please stay tuned for the next episode of the BJJ Fanatics Podcast.