BJJ Fanatics 669: Glyn Powditch

Speaker 1: Welcome back to the BJJ Fanatics podcast. I'm your host Ryan Ford. My guest today is a third-degree black belt in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. He's a respected Jiu-Jitsu and MMA instructor, and he teaches out of his own gym, SPG Rossendale, just north of Manchester, England. He's helped he's helping spread the movement of breath work in Jiu-Jitsu, and he's one of the leading voices in that area. Ladies and gentlemen, it's my pleasure to be joined today by Professor Glenn Powditch. How are you today, Glenn? Speaker 2: Thank you. Yeah, very well. Thank you, Ryan. Speaker 1: Excellent. It's great to have you here, Glenn. So, Glenn, if you don't mind, tell us about where you're from originally and what life was like before you found Jiu-Jitsu. Speaker 2: Yeah, so, uh, I'm I'm from near the South, basically, from near London, um, originally. And, uh, I I football football and chess were pretty much everything. I played a bit of golf and and cricket, but I I played football to a a decent level. Um, I I played for Bolton Wanderers, who are a team that's kind of they call them a yo-yo team. Uh, in the US, you don't really have relegation. Um, but in the in the Premier League, you have a in Premier League, you have Premier League Champions League, and Bolton Wanderers were kind of a yo-yo team at that time going between the the two. So, I played at I played at Bolton, I played at Reading, who were another yo-yo team in like the youth team. And, um, pretty decent at chess, and then I I think I got to about 18 and and I was kind of tired of football. I felt like, oh, you know, all I'd ever done from the age of I could remember was play football five nights a week and weekends. And, uh, and, you know, there wasn't a great deal of money as as well at that time. You you see the contracts the guys are on these days, even at the lower levels, but back then there wasn't the money. And I think I was kind of done with it. And, um, I started lifting weights, really. I started lifting weights for football. And then, um, I started doing, uh, online private classes with Mike Mentzer, uh, which Matt Thornton pointed out to me might have been a, uh, a kind of precursor to the future, because Mike Mentzer was, you know, obviously a famous bodybuilder, but very, um, interested in philosophy and interested in, I think, efficiency as well. He was, you know, a real kind of driver of efficiency. Um, and so, pretty quickly realized from from having some coaching with Mike that I wasn't going to be lifting weights all day, and I had a lot of energy. Um, and I also thought as well, like, I I didn't particularly like going to general exercise classes. I I didn't really see too much benefit. But, um, I I was always interested in martial arts. And now that kind of football was gone, and like I didn't need to train a lot in terms of lifting weights, um, you know, I needed something really to occupy my time. And I read about, uh, effectively what, uh, you know, was human cockfighting was how it was described as. And, uh, of course, that was the the the first UFC with Royce Gracie. And what struck me about that was that the the the smallest guy in the entire thing had beaten up all these other experts in martial arts. And so, I got got that first UFC 1. I watched it, and I remember my girlfriend at the time was like, God, are you ever going to stop watching this? Um, but I just I couldn't, like, I just couldn't put the thing down. And, um, so I wanted to to find somewhere to to train. And to begin with, there there wasn't really back then, um, I'm I'm 46 now, and I was around 20, 21 at the time. There wasn't really much distinction really between Jiu-Jitsu and and MMA back then. No like to nowhere near the degree there is now. Um, so when you were looking for somewhere to train, it was like it was really hard to find anywhere. Um, and about maybe a good 40 miles away from where I was, there was, um, a guy called, uh, Lee Hasdell, who'd fought in Rings, Japan. He was like down as being like the first, I think, professional UK MMA fighter, so he was out there. And he come back and opened a school, and there was a guy called Danny Batten sort of running the school for him, who was, yeah, went on to become a Cage Warriors champion. And so, I kind of started in MMA, uh, really as a as a because that was an MMA club primarily. Did a bit of Jiu-Jitsu, but it was primarily Thai boxing. And then Danny started to do more and more in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. He had a Brazilian, uh, guy over called Eduardo Carriello, who now fourth or fifth-degree black belt, runs a bunch of, uh, Gracie Barra's around London. And, um, I started to train with him, do privates with him. And it was just like, uh, the the UFC scenario, you know, this relatively small Brazilian guy just just smashing me to pieces. So, I was doing privates with him all the time. And the privates mainly consisted at the back then of him showing me a few things, and then just for an hour and a half, just beating the daylights out of me, really. And I was hooked, completely hooked. Um, so that was that was really the the journey to Jiu-Jitsu. So, um, it it it's kind of it's funny, because it's difficult to remember life now without Jiu-Jitsu. Uh, but there it definitely was a life before it. Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. No, I know exactly. I think I think everyone listening knows exactly what you mean. It really is like a life-changing a life-changing journey we get on. There there's a couple cool things you talked about in your past that I'd like to zoom in on. First, you mentioned Mike Mentzer. Uh, that's I'm actually following his methodology now. I just started like three months ago following the heavy duty the heavy duty, uh, methodology. I'm noticing a big difference. I I really do notice a big difference in my results when I'm lifting. And, um, it's cool, because it kind of it kind of the the idea is that you don't have to be in the gym every single day. That he really emphasizes the taking long breaks between like taking like a five to seven days between, uh, each muscle group before you do it again. That's not something I ever did before. I assumed, oh, I got to hit like, you know, three days a week and go, go, go. But actually, I I think I was maybe limiting my results by doing that. Speaker 2: Right. 100%. And as Dave Camarillo says to us, you know, we lift humans. You know, we shouldn't we shouldn't forget that. So, so we're already lifting or resisting human being at different angles and and so we're already doing a high pretty I mean, it depends obviously how intensely people train in their daily sessions, but some people train a lot more intensely than others and go and go harder. And you've got to think about the wear and tear on your body and and just recovery. Um, something else you might be interested in is I I so over the the kind of COVID, uh, lockdown, I got I got it kind of was like a restart for me on a few things. So, one is obviously we'll come on to is breath work, but another one was sort of catching up with people that I kind of knew of, because obviously Mike's been gone a long time. And I was interested in terms of who's actually driving the methodology, uh, forward. And, um, there's a great resource in Drew Bay. So, Drew was writing for Mike, and that was how I I don't know if you know Drew at all, but, um, he he was writing on MikeMentzer.com. And, uh, and and Drew has has kind of connected with Ken Hutchins, who is another one of like Arthur Jones's guys. Ken Hutchins was was basically doing a lot of the research, the kind of physical research that, um, Arthur Jones was doing in the universities and in and and started building his own line of machines as well. Um, and and Ken and Drew were really big on it, actually improving form. Um, so one of the things that they said that they felt like, you know, Drew said Mike would have advanced on was when you watch some of the the the actual form of the exercise, you know, Drew basically says that he feels that Mike would have gone towards where Ken Hutchins's thinking was, which actually really slow, really super slow at like the so super slow movement, as they call it. Um, with Doug McGuff. And so, that that whole area has been super interesting for me, time static contractions. I I don't really lift weights anymore. Um, I just do these time static contractions. Um, and and with Jiu-Jitsu, I find like at 46 now, I'm on the mat every single day. That's about all my body can take is a few time static contractions. Um, so even less injury risk with time static contractions. You you really are just flexing against something that's fixed. Um, so it's just it's a super interesting thing to explore if you haven't. Speaker 1: That is really cool. Yeah, I'm definitely going to look into Drew, because I'm not familiar with him currently. I I found Mike, uh, Mike Mentzer's stuff on YouTube, actually. I was just looking through some just general information about lifting and then, you know, uh, um, cutting weight and things like that. And I found it. And I was like, oh, that's kind of cool. And as I kept watching, there's all these things he he was saying about like, you know, the recovery how important recovery time is and that you shouldn't hit the same muscle group within just a couple days. You should give it a little bit longer for your body to recover. Another thing was the idea of of working into working to failure, with the goal being failure. And I always did this deal where it's like, okay, I'm going to do three sets of 10 or 12 of whatever I'm doing. And he said that famous thing. He says, well, dude, your body doesn't know math. Like your body doesn't know that your body understands, I've worked the muscle to exhaustion, and now I got to stop and let it recover so it grows. And I thought I thought, man, I've never it's funny, I've never thought of that before. Like I I your body really doesn't know the difference between the numbers. It doesn't do math. So it's it just knows, hey, this muscle is now exhausted. Yeah, so. Speaker 2: Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. 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Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. 100%. Really. Speaker 1: Really cool. He was decades ahead. I think yeah, yeah, I think so. I mean, I'm I'm no I'm no expert in the in the in the in the industry or in the field, but it's it's it's been very beneficial for me so far to follow his program. I I know it's a big difference. Yeah. Something else you mentioned in your in your in your, uh, in your life before Jiu-Jitsu, you mentioned both an a participation in sports and also chess. And I'd like to zoom on that, because there because there are two things that I've always seen people who do really well in Jiu-Jitsu when they first come in as white belts. If they have a sports background, especially wrestlers, obviously, or or judokas. Uh, anyone that has a sports background, though, tends to accelerate a little faster, just because their body's a little more primed for the for the activity. But also chess players. I I've I've found I've known a few people that are really high-level chess players, and they just seem to grasp the strategies and the understand and they understand Jiu-Jitsu a lot quicker than your average Joe. Do you feel like once you got involved because of your background with sports and chess that it gave you a bit a bit of an edge? Speaker 2: Oh, it's awesome. Yeah. I I think so. I I think that with with, um, with chess, I mean, there's there's so many sort of elements to it that cross over. Um, so things like actually first principles. So, in in in chess, for example, um, there's really interesting debates that will go on, even amongst grandmasters, and I think they get arguments solved much more quickly, um, than in Jiu-Jitsu, because in Jiu-Jitsu, there's always these elements of physical attributes. You have someone with tremendous physical attributes, and sometimes sometimes they'll be unfairly dismissed because they have tremendous physical attributes. A lot of the time, they're rightly dismissed, because it's kind of like taking business advice from somebody with a trust fund. Um, you know, so if somebody's in there and they're like, oh, you know, number of times I hear guys who are like, you know, 225 complaining about the guy who's 275. And it's like, you're one of the biggest beasts statistically on the planet if you're 225 and pretty lean. You know, but they'll still complain about the guy who's 275. And then it's like, well, so it's one of those. But, yeah, you get things like controlling the center in chess is incredibly important. And you'll get a debate like the French defense. Is the is the French does the French defense break chess principles? Because, uh, so for anyone that isn't familiar, the chess defense, a very common defense taught, uh, works at the highest levels. Magnus plays it. But you don't typically always castle your king. And so, you get grandmasters who say, it's a ridiculous opening. Why why do you leave your king in the center? And as a famous chess instructor, uh, pointed out, well, the number one principle of of an opening in chess is to control the center. Roger Gracie talks about controlling the center all the time. Hickson talks about controlling the center. John Danaher talks about controlling the center. And so, you don't castle, but castling isn't a first principle in an opening. The first principle is to control the center. And what the French does is controls the center, no matter what. And so, you end up getting if you have any level of chess exposure, a lot of the ideas that are within chess are actually like things become fairly obvious. When you hear first principles in Jiu-Jitsu, some people think you just mean basics. And basics and principles are are not really the same things. Um, and so, you're familiar with these concepts before you even get in. And another thing is tempo. You know, so people sometimes who are good at Jiu-Jitsu, but have only, uh, played chess, say there's no timing in chess. That's completely wrong. As you go up the levels, you discover that there is a thing called basically they call it tempi. But the the whole idea is things like making making your opponent move the same piece twice in an opening. So, you steal back the initiative in the game. So, so there there are all kinds of things that I think are are misunderstood on on this. And and even into like breath work, which we'll come on to. Um, multiple grandmasters work on breath work in chess, because they realize that lowering their heart rate actually helps them improve. And the more I talk to my chess coaches about this, the more they point out more grandmasters that have talked about this and done lectures on it that I wasn't even aware of. Speaker 1: That's really incredible. Yeah, you could definitely see a lot of a lot of crossover with with the strategy and just the overall mindset of chess and Jiu-Jitsu. Being several steps ahead, thinking several steps ahead is obviously something super important. Um, now that brings us to to you mentioned breath work. That's that's definitely something that we, uh, that we want to talk about with you today. How did you first get into breath work? Uh, where where did that where did that aspect of your, uh, of your journey come into play? Speaker 2: Yeah, so, so my wife tried to get me into breath work, because she said she thought it would improve my Jiu-Jitsu. And like my attitude was like, you don't even train. Um, so like, I wasn't I just wasn't interested. And she she sort of talked about let's go into yoga. I went to yoga with her, and they sort of talk about, you know, oh, breathe in, breathe out. I I've realized that a lot of yoga instructors, I think, do, you know, not a very good job on on breath work. Now I've kind of been spoiled with some of the instructors that I've managed to get at. Um, but that was my first exposure to it, and I did I did nothing about it. I didn't take it particularly seriously. Um, I was then diagnosed with, uh, asthma as well, which pretty much finished me competitively. I was finding that I was having matches, and I was just I couldn't and this came almost felt like it came from nowhere. I I didn't have it before. I'd compete, was doing fine. This is in Jiu-Jitsu. And then all of a sudden, I just found I just couldn't couldn't breathe. And so, I get diagnosed with with asthma. Um, and that like I just I had to slow the pace of everything I was doing. And then, um, I got the chance to go and, uh, go to a Hickson Gracie seminar. Hickson made a kind of comeback around 2015 after kind of years away, you know, he kind of made a public comeback. And, um, he was he did a seminar at Portland, Oregon at SPG headquarters. So, obviously, I'm part of SPG. And my wife said, why don't you go to it? And so, I did the the 23 hours of flying out there, stayed out there for the week. Um, I remember thinking, I don't I hope Hickson doesn't do his self-defense stuff. Um, I wasn't interested in that at all. Was kind of dismissive of it. I I wanted to learn the groundwork in my head. That was what I wanted to learn. And then, uh, he basically kind of did an hour of the three hours talking about breath work. And so, I thought, well, I really do need to learn this now. You know, my wife said to me about it, and, you know, with asthma and so on. And he he and he spent so hour of the first three. And then he gets to kind of the end of the hour, and then he picks me up and starts doing the self-defense stuff with him. So, 180 people, and he gets me partners with me to do it. And he he literally, Ryan, just dragged me around that mat like a rag doll. Uh, and it kind of really opened my eyes to that side of it. Um, I I do understand why people are dismissive of of elements of it, but I also now get what what his objectives are, which I think are a little bit different. And and in terms of like, he's actually really explaining the principles of base. And so, that's really what, um, what what what changed it. But I still didn't really do anything properly until COVID hit. And then in COVID, I think a lot of us got a chance to actually kind of like take a step back and and get interested in some different things that, you know, get get started some projects that we've been been, uh, delaying. And so, I got on to Henry Akins, and I said to Henry Akins, um, you know, what did Hickson teach you about breath work? And he said, well, he never taught us anything about it. He started talking about this, you know, we've known that he always did it. We used to hear him making all these noises, but he never coached it in in class. And like Henry was with him for like 12 years. Um, but he said, uh, I recommend going and speaking to Blissa of Ranich. He said, I was kind of same kind of mindset. And he said, Blissa of Ranich is is the best I've found on this. So, I went and did her 12-week certification on it. And, uh, no longer use the inhalers. That's that's been one of the the the big takeaways from it. I I think I was actually overbreathing, um, in an effort to get too much air in. And I think I've kind of like this this happens apparently in some athletes. They can cause kind of asthmatic symptoms or maybe give themselves asthma. But I don't use them anymore. Um, and it it just completely has changed my life on so many levels. It's improved my Jiu-Jitsu. Um, I've also found as I've gone further into to chess, that as I say, like, um, Gukesh, who's the current world champion, his coach, a guy grandmaster called Vishnu Prasanna. If you sign on to his online chess program, every week they have a psychology session, and the psychology session is basically all about breath work and talking through, uh, transaction analysis within games, you know, your internal voice going through child, adult, parent states. But the cure is always breath work. And so, that that's kind of the the the journey in a kind of nutshell. Um, but I the the more I look around, the more I keep finding that that top people in different disciplines, there's somebody within that, and it's usually someone right near the top, who's saying, you know, breath work is like the single easiest thing you can do to get better at whatever it is that you're doing. Speaker 1: It's it's interesting, too, to look at breath work through the lens of combat sports, because I I think something that you see a lot of new people to Jiu-Jitsu do is you you notice that they just hyperventilate as they first start rolling and training. They don't they don't they they clearly don't have control of their breath. And we all went through it. I mean, I I'm I'm not any different. I I went through the exact same thing, too. But if someone had told me beforehand, hey, like really be mindful of your breathing, I think it probably would have helped me a little bit in those in those early days. What what do you think are some of the most common misconceptions about breath work? What are some what are some things when people think of breath work, what are some things they might be thinking that aren't quite accurate? Speaker 2: Yeah. I think that one is that the the, uh, people that they're being conned and just sold something. That's definitely a thing that you get. Um, I've I've seen comments on breath work courses on on Reddit, my own, other people's, and it's like, oh, you know, people are charging you now to learn, you know, to to teach you something you you do anyway, right? Like, this is ridiculous. That's one of the things. Another one is, oh, you just relax. Um, you know, if you just learn to relax, then you don't need to worry about about this at all. And it's just like, everyone I've ever rolled with who said like, everyone high-level I've ever really rolled with doesn't ever have that attitude. I've not had one of them say that yet. Um, maybe there is somebody, but I've never had any of them say that. Um, and the number of them that I've rolled with, some of them are BJJ black belts. And like, they they tap to pressure. And and it's like, they they tell you beforehand that they're relaxed. But then like, you roll with them, and it's like, you just tap to pressure. It's like, you know, I don't want to labor it, but it's like, you basically dismissed what I said to you. And now we've rolled, and I've put weight on your diaphragm, and I'm not big. I'm like 180 pounds. It's it's ridiculous. And it's completely solvable. That's the other thing is is that attitude is probably like holding back so many people, um, in terms of their Jiu-Jitsu progression. And and like, you can literally, so to your point around beginners, if you get a beginner that really focuses on all the elements of breath work. This isn't just breath work patterns, but also like, um, there's specific stretches that Blissa will get you to do that opens up your rib cage. Like so so as we age, particularly, we get to about 40, and she's got this in her in her book. Um, we lose a ridiculous amount of basically our our lung capacity through our rib cage, just very gradually doing this to us. It's why people start saying things like, my cardio sucks as I'm getting older. Our rib cages are doing that to us. And so, if you keep the rib cage flexible, and you stretch it, and you open it out, and you do specific exercises for it, you can actually, you know, effectively grow it. You can keep it malleable. And your lungs can keep your your your lungs are not really, you know, most in the most case in terms of aging, your lungs if you if you're in a postmortem, they could put pump in it, and they could pump that lung out, and the lung would just go. It's the it's the rib cage that's restricting it. So, I think there are all these misconceptions, because people just have no idea about what the hell they're talking about. And it's only when you go and do a a certification or you work with somebody, and then you have I've got I've got a purple belt in my gym who's just really gone to town on this stuff. I cannot tap him to pressure now, even like in the soul stealer, you know, kind of Henry Akins's kind of scarf hold. It's pretty pretty gnarly. And like, I just couldn't tap him to it. And I've and I've seen, and I've told this story, and Henry's verified it as well. Um, I I went and trained at one of Henry's camps, and I'd seen Henry on a on an on a YouTube video that he did, tapping all these different black belts. How long could they survive? He had this different thing of how long they could survive his soul stealer. And there's plenty of black belts tapping in like eight seconds, eight, nine seconds. And like, and I and I mean that that's not like these aren't it's this doesn't mean they're bad or whatever. It just is like, it's a gruesome position. It's absolutely gruesome. And there is no doubt I would have tapped to that within seconds as well, prior to doing this. And and I only did this as a third, uh, what was I? First degree, maybe coming up second degree black belt. So, I did the course at that point, and I would have tapped. No doubt about it. I would have tapped. I'd have blamed my lungs. I could have made all the excuses with my asthma and my two inhalers. And then I went and trained with Henry out in Costa Rica. It was 38 Celsius at the Hero Academy. Anyone that's been there, it's, you know, there's no aircon. It's basically a shed in paradise, but it's boiling hot. We we'd done the seminar. We'd all been sparring, and Henry got me during sparring in the soul stealer. And he in the end gave up. And then he mounted me and he armbarred me. But the the point of me saying of telling this story is is that this is something that is so ridiculously trainable that you can survive a 235 pound, you know, Hickson Gracie black belt, who's this position is like, you know, it's like the Bret Hart sharpshooter, right? It's like, you know, nobody's getting it's like this thing of always like, nobody's getting out. Once Henry lands it, everyone's like, oh, that's that's done. It's all over. Guy's going to be tapping the back any second. And like, you can just breathe through it. You can breathe through it. And so, you then start to realize that this is actually way, way deeper. And so, things like one of the things I've started to now do since my breathe to win instructional, is I started to realize, um, that people who defend triangles, uh, triangle chokes in particular, but any of the triangular chokes where there's a your arm is involved, head and arms, et cetera. You can definitely improve any escape that you do by literally full inhale. Fill in your belly, fill in your chest, getting into a bracing breath, just like you're doing a deadlift or a squat. If you're a powerlifter, they they call it, uh, I think they call it Valsalva. But like, you get people to compare trying to exhale when they're doing their triangle defense, and then just pure inhale. Just bracing as much as you can while doing the defense. And I tell you, when you try to triangle them as well, you feel the difference. One one is like the success rate if they're exhaling is just like just way, way higher. And there's a few reasons for that as as well. The the main one is is and the reason powerlifters do this is, it gives their spine something to flex against. So, if you think about a think about a Coke can, when it's full, how structurally sound it is, right? So, if it was sealed with with air, that wouldn't really matter. It's sealed with the liquid. But when you empty it, when it's empty, you can crush it really easy, right? But it's almost a strong man thing. If you can crush a can of Coke, it's like, wow, you've got an incredible grip, right? And so, it's that kind of that kind of concept of just filling up as much as you possibly can when you're in these these kind of like positions where you're you want to do almost everything to get out. And and that usually is like people are then like, oh, wow. Or they'll say, oh, well, I've always done this. And it's like, well, great. It's good that you've always done it. It's a shame you never coached it. So, yeah. Speaker 1: That's very interesting. This is very interesting. You also you get extra points for mentioning the sharpshooter on the podcast. I appreciate that. Speaker 2: Exactly. You've got to get it in, right? Speaker 1: So, following up with what you said, though, the argument that that you're basically teaching someone to to do something that they already do for free or do naturally. I mean, that's the same argument as saying humans naturally grapple each other and altercations, so why take Jiu-Jitsu? Speaker 2: 100%. Speaker 1: It doesn't it doesn't mean, yeah, it doesn't mean it doesn't mean that something you naturally would do can't be done significantly better, you know? So, uh, let me ask you this, for for new people out there that are going through that hyperventilation stage of of their training, where they're just exhausting themselves, uh, by, uh, getting too amped up and not controlling their heart rate and their breathing. What is something today that they could start doing in training that would help them immediately through breath work? Speaker 2: 100%. Yeah. So, I mean, I'm a big fan of, um, I'm a big fan of even just like the the the so, first off, is just seeing it. Actually seeing, I think, the difference it can it can make for you. Um, so, I'm a big fan of Wim Hof. Um, and I haven't I haven't officially done his method. I've done quite a few of his courses on online. I I kind of completed it sometime back. And one of the things he does is just these these kind of like breathing rounds. So, first off, is like, I'm I'm not big on meditation. I was never a kind of meditation kind of guy. Um, I was always like, achievement, drive, goals, objectives, you know, qualifications, all that kind of thing. But like, he does some great breathing rounds on YouTube, which don't cost anything. And literally, you just listen to his instruction, follow it. Like, even just doing this in the car, if you're in the car park, just doing a few breathing rounds before you even go in the gym, and just switching yourself off. So, you're actually going in relaxed. You know, you you literally he takes you he does about it's about 40 40 into the belly, into the chest, uh, just inhale, exhales. And then one final big inhale, and then just hold it for as long as it's comfortable. You're not you're not holding the breath for like and you're not like tensing. You're relaxing just a breath hold. As long as it's comfortable. Like, three rounds of that is just such a game change. Even one round is phenomenal. But three rounds of it's a complete game changer. You can completely switch off. And when you kind of come back around, you feel like you've been, you know, you sometimes like three rounds of that, you feel like you've been asleep for a couple of hours. It's like, oh, wow. This is like a whole world of difference. And that's just like on on YouTube, and it it costs you nothing. Um, so that's that's a great thing you could do. Another one is just simple like box breathing methods, where all you're simply doing is, you know, I always try and emphasize the belly if you can, just putting the hand on the belly, hand on the chest. But just literally just nasal breath, shut your mouth. In for four seconds, hold it for four seconds, exhale for four seconds. You can do six seconds. You can play around with the pattern. It's actually there are a lot one of the things I feel with breath work as well is there's not really much right or wrong. You can kind of experiment, and you can go with what feels right for you. But just that simple process of just four seconds of just focusing on exhaling. Just getting all the air out of your belly. Four seconds of not breathing. Four seconds in. Do that for a little while. If you wear a Fitbit, and and like even Fitbits now actually and the, uh, the Apple Watches, they all have these devices built into them. And you'll they'll literally monitor your heart rate, and you'll see your heart rate just falling and falling and falling just as you're doing it. So, there's so many simple things on this, Ryan, that you can do. We we're now spoiled for choice on it, I think. Speaker 1: Yeah. No, that's great. It's interesting you brought up box breathing, because box breathing is something that I use to help myself with, uh, anxiety years. I'm sorry, with, um, uh, insomnia years ago. Yeah. I I was I was dealing with insomnia for a stretch of time, and box breathing is something that really helped me. Helped me kind of calm and get to sleep and not have such racing thoughts as I'm laying in bed. Um, and obviously, I mean, I can see how there's always that that that phase that you go through in Jiu-Jitsu where you have to just learn how to be comfortable in an uncomfortable place. Speaker 2: It's it's absolutely. Speaker 1: How can you I mean, how can you learn? Speaker 2: How can you I mean, how can you learn? This this is one of the things. So, Vishnu Prasanna said this, is is Gukesh's, uh, coach at chess. And and he was saying that he can't he doesn't feel like he can coach somebody who isn't relaxed. And this is one of the things. This is why he gets them to do the breath work. He's like, I cannot coach you at chess if you're not relaxed. If you're distracted, if you're stressed, if you're, uh, have anxiety. Another chess, uh, grandmaster, uh, has a website. It's a big online instructional. I think it's like about 1,200 bucks a year to be a member. I think it's the most expensive one out there I know of. It's called Chess Mood. And it and he said, why did you call it Chess Mood? Was it because there was no domains left or whatever? Somebody said to him, and he was like, he was laughing. But he's like, no, it's because when you play chess, your mood like is everything. He said, if you come into a negative if you come in with a negative mindset when you're playing, he's like, I don't think you can compete. Because the minute your opponent plays a move, and your mindset's not right, you'll be like, oh, I was hoping he wasn't going to play that. Or what is it I do here? You're already in that negative, uh, it's so easy to do in chess. It's so easy to do in Jiu-Jitsu. You know, that self-talk. And, um, and and, uh, he he was also, uh, Prasanna, uh, was also talking about when he was at the candidates, he got to the so candidates is what you go in to try to play for the world shot of the world title. And he got all the way to candidates, and then realized during the the middle of a match that he'd basically hung his bishop. And so, what I mean by hung his bishop is, he had literally his opponent could take his bishop, and he couldn't take it back. And he said, the minute I played the move, as I let go of the piece, I was like, oh, my God. Like, I couldn't let my opponent know. I'm like, oh, my God. And he said, I had to walk away from the board to see him not see my reaction. He said, if I see the reaction, he said, that would be. And so, he said, I walked away, over the other side of the room. At that level, they can see the board in their head anyway. So, they can like, they their visualization is so amazing. But like, he said, I walked away, I looked at it. And he said, I went through the he said, this is why I have you doing the transaction analysis. He said, I went through the the the kid reaction, which is just was like, oh, what have I done? I'm reacting like a child. You know, it's almost like the tantrum physical reaction, just completely gone. He said, and then it's like, and then he said, I I I I just took a few breaths, because what else could you do? He said, and and then I thought about it, and I thought to myself, I've got to get my mind back a little bit here. And, um, you know, I've and then I said, I said to myself, you know, which is the adult, uh, transaction analysis. You know, I said to myself, well, look, you've you've worked hard. You've come you've come all this way, right? Let's just see what we can do about this position. And he said, and so, I took a few more breaths at that point, felt a little bit more relaxed. He said, and I started to look at the board. And he said, and now, he said, I ask myself, what's my opponent going to do next? Once he takes the bishop. So, he takes the bishop, what now happens? And he said, and I looked at it, and I thought, his position's horrible. So, he takes the bishop, but like, I've got him all penned in here. And so, he takes the bishop, he's got nowhere to go. This position is like, you know, it's like really, really bad for him. It it doesn't actually help him positionally. All my pieces are pointing at his king, et cetera. And so, in the end, he he he comes to the conclusion, hey, it's okay. And the opponent didn't even take the bishop. Speaker 1: Oh, wow. After after all that, he didn't even didn't even notice the mistake. Wow. Speaker 2: Yeah, he just like he obviously thought the position is he didn't actually the guy was like, if I take the bishop, he I mean, he he he definitely saw it, but he must have come to the same conclusion. But the point was, he thought he'd made a bad move, and he just panicked and told himself he lost. Now, in Jiu-Jitsu, we don't usually get that time to, uh, reflect maybe as as much. But this is the solution is still the same. I make a mistake. There's nothing I can do about it. Deep breath. Do I feel better? No. Deep breath, deep breath, deep breath. Okay. And we we deal with it, right? But there's nothing else we can do. And Carl Jung, you know, who's kind of Jordan Peterson's kind of, uh, intellectual mentor, at least. Obviously, he died a long time before Jordan Peterson ever entered the planet. But, you know, he's built upon Carl Jung. He is a Jungian. And Carl Jung said basically the same thing in therapy in, you know, I think it was like 1800s, early 1900s. He was basically saying the same thing. He like, we we can talk through all these problems that we've got, and we can intellectualize them and and so on. But like, the solution almost always is going to come back to, we're just going to have to take a deep breath. And do you feel better, Ryan? Not yet. No. Well, take another one. And and and that's the that ends up being the ultimate solution. So, yeah. Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny we're talking about this, because not long ago, I was watching on YouTube a video of, um, what is that chess master? Magnus, um, Speaker 2: Carlson, yeah. Speaker 1: Thank you. Thank you. There was a video of Magnus Carlson. He was in a he was in a match, and he I think I believe he lost. But I noticed, because I I I kind of sort of went down a a a rabbit hole where I'm just watching these chess videos and stuff. And and I'd seen him win several matches. And in this one match where he was losing, it's what you described. He was he was visually flustered. He was he he clearly was a little had was a little getting a little emotional during during during the the match. And it did remind me of like it's just like watching a Jiu-Jitsu match fall apart. It's when you watch someone or when I watch myself, like like when a roll starts not going my way, I probably not that I look angry or upset, but in my mind, I'm just like, oh, God, dude, this sucks. Everything's getting worse and worse. And like, you know. So, so I I I I love what we're talking about here, because there number one, there's a lot of correlation between those two things. But secondly, the breathing and and the in the state of mind really does matter in those moments. You have to be able to keep it together and and come back to the table, so to speak, metaphorically. Um, when things are not going your way. And yeah, breathing is obviously a great place to start. Speaker 2: 100%. I think one of the other things as well that that beginners definitely have is they definitely have, and even some more experienced guys, but they have an expectation that they should do way better than they they should. And so, this is a I I think a common problem that links into it is that they get anxious because they they have these expectations. They don't actually realize that nobody else is thinking about how they're doing. Like, apart from the coaches, maybe. Like, no one else almost nobody in Jiu-Jitsu cares how anyone else is doing. If they're winning, all they're thinking is I'm I'm winning. And so, they often have anxiety. Um, and I I try and one of the things I've tried saying to them recently to to guys is like, you know, if if anyone plays golf, right? You don't always have to take a driver off the tee, right? Just because everyone else is taking a driver, nothing wrong with you taking a six iron. Play your own game. You're not here to measure yourself. You're here to improve. And I I've sometimes had it where students of mine roll with me on a certain day, and, um, they have no idea what what my intentions are in that roll. So, my intentions in that roll might be, I've just come back from BJJ Fanatics camp with Bernardo. Um, he's been working we've been working quarter guard, a position I don't play. And I'm trying to play quarter guard, and I'm trying to get into quarter guard during spars. I'm trying to force quarter guard, no no matter what, or deep deep half, whatever you want to call it. But like, he's playing in these positions, and I'm I'm using the like the lapel. I don't usually use the lapel that much. And I'm I'm sometimes struggling in that. And so, some of the guys are coming off, and it's like, oh, you know, I did pretty well with Glenn today. Then I roll with them in another session, if if, you know, however long afterwards. And they're then messaging other coaches in the gym, and they're like, oh, they're in like one of the coaches messaged me in like, X is like having a real, you know, almost like a breakdown on messenger to me about Jiu-Jitsu. He's not improving, and blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, well, what's that? He said, oh, well, he said, he rolled with you, you know, before, and like, he did really well against you. And then like, you just rolled with him this morning, and like, he tapped seven times in five minutes. And, right? And it's like, yeah, because this morning, I felt pretty good. My back was good. You know, I hadn't really sparred the previous day, just did so, you know, very light training and and whatever. Felt felt great. And the guy was coming after me, and yeah, he he, you know, today he got it, right? But these expectations people have, even like, you get purple, brown, black belts, even, you know, will have these ideas that, oh, I'm I'm improving because I rolled really well against somebody, who who like, they had no idea that like, I was just working on one thing that I'm not very good at. And then like, another day, they get the A game, right? But this I think is another part of this, that if actually they were way more focused on even just their breath work when they were rolling. Like, sometimes literally, Ryan, I'm I'm just trying to get more air into my lungs and be more efficient. And I'm noticing that like, I'm just a little tense in the hands, and it's causing me to, uh, use more more air than I need. And I just like some rolls, I literally am just trying to nasal breathe and load my belly as much as I can as I'm moving. And there is no other thought going on in in the roll than that. Other times, I I dismiss the breathing. There's odd times I will just not even think about it, and I'm just playing A game. But but like, I'm never really learning that much when I'm doing that. But sometimes you just almost want the relief, the the the fun of just playing with no no thought. Um, I'm not saying that's optimal for learning, but like, sometimes it is just Jiu-Jitsu is a stress release for all of us, right? Um, but I I think that's definitely an element that affects people's breath work, psychology, and and so on. And I think the more they actually focused on just improving their breathing, if you can get through a round, and you've just like really you've you've breathed really well, you know, you're coming off, you can talk like I'm talking now. I've just done nasal breathing. My other my training partner, who I've I've just had the roll with, is like, you know, even if they had me in cross side top for the entire five minutes, if I've come out of it, and I've just survived and and I'm not blowing blowing air, right? And they're like, they've been trying to smash me, smash me, smash me. And they're exhausted. Like, that can be a win as well. Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely. Well, you know, on on the topic of, uh, of like managing the panic, uh, that that happens when we're when we're losing positions and when we're losing the momentum of a roll or a competition match. What are your thoughts? Are there are there any like, uh, like interesting scientifically backed things that you've learned about breathing that directly have impact on people's emotions, like on their emotional well-being and on their on their, I guess, their nervous system in general that you could share with us? Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, there's tons of there's tons of research out there on the the the nervous system. I mean, so I mean, the whole thing around around belly breathing and and basically staying away from fight or flight. That that there's tons of things out there on that and the nasal breathing. And there's all the stuff. I don't know if you saw it with Wim Hof, where they, uh, injected him with, um, I think it was a type of botulism, um, that would invoke nausea and some other things. And he basically did all the breathing, and they were just amazed at how it just had no almost no impact on it. Um, Hickson Hickson's Hickson's talked about I mean, there's tons of studies out there. I mean, I I personally am kind of more interested in stuff where like Hickson was talking about, you know, the likes of Andre Galvao, Saulo in Jiu-Jitsu University, you know, said, um, oh, the, uh, the last time I rolled with Hickson, this was one of the submissions he caught me with. And this is like, this is Saulo Ribeiro. It's like, I think in his retirement match, he lost like three, five to Roger. And, you know, obviously, these things are a few years before. Saulo's obviously improved a lot. But like, you know, this is Saulo Ribeiro talking about, this is one of the submissions Hickson caught me with. And then Hickson's like, doesn't name names, but he says, well, oh, when all these famous champions, you know, talk about me armlocking them or choking them, they always ask me like, show me the armlock, show me the show me the choke. And he's like, no, the reason they lost is their heart rate was too high. And he said, I show them the armlock, I show them the choke, but the thing they should ask me is, why did you lose? And it's like, because my heart rate's 150, and theirs is is 180. And around 180, their body just starts to effectively shut down. You know, they they can't think straight and and so on. He said, and that's when I apply the armlock or I apply the choke. He exhausts them. And so, this is this this is I mean, it's just without without question. And then in within chess, Boris Gelfand is a has been a guy who I think tied with Vishy for the world championship. Vishy kept the world championship. He didn't beat him. I think he drew with him. But Anand was a Vishy Anand was a world champion. And Gelfand has again, it's all about the heart rate and keeping the heart rate as low as he as he possibly can. Um, so you just hear this. And obviously, Gukesh's coach does all the same thing. It's all about keeping the heart rate down. So, the the the more you can keep your heart rate down during rolls, the better your decision-making's going to be, the more you're going to remember of the roll, the more you're going to learn. And and I I think as a and a kind of linked point to this was Bernardo was talking, uh, just on Instagram, and I've just been been interacting with him on it. Um, talking about Jiu-Jitsu is a, you know, he he was talking about, um, you don't have to roll with everyone. This is another thing. And I I think and I think this is really important. So, Bernardo said, in my opinion, you don't have to roll with everybody in the gym. If you don't want to roll with somebody, you just say, uh, you know, it's not not for me. And, uh, I I think of this as being akin to a conversation. So, there are different rolls that we'll have with people that Jiu-Jitsu for me is a conversation, and there's some people you just don't want to have a conversation with. It it's it's that it really is that simple. If if the conversation between us all the time, Ryan, is me just basically, Ryan, I'm going to kill you. Ryan, I'm going to kill you. Ryan, I'm going to kill you. I don't know what you're really getting out of that roll. Uh, apart from maybe injuries. Even inadvertent injuries. So, I'm not I'm not very good. But like, I keep locking your knee in stupid positions and just bridging like a lunatic. And it's like, you're not going to tap to it, right? But like, I'm locking your knee in a bad position, and it's like, it's like that's just not it's just not a healthy way to train. It's not good. It's not you're you're my pass my guard, mount me, crush me, choke me out. But at the end of it, your knee's like a bit sprained and and so those those are actually, I think, conversations that we should really try and avoid. Um, and and so this this then links back to, you know, what what really is a conversation? You know, it's well, a calm conversation is one where hopefully, we're we're breathing correctly. We're taking we're taking our time with what we're saying and what what what we're thinking. But if I'm letting my breathing go, and and I'm getting really angry, then, you know, that again, it's just like conversations. It's usually a pointless conversation. It's like, you're best off walking away from it. There's nowhere you can take me, because I'm just angry, and I'm, you know, mouth breathing, and I'm like, and chest going, my shoulders are up and down. I'm really cross. And so, I I think all of these things are are kind of of linked, really. Speaker 1: Absolutely. Yeah, it's funny. I just saw that video the other day that Bernardo posted. And I I definitely agree. I mean, you do have to, especially as you're getting like older, you have to be able to you have to be able to tell someone like, hey, man, nothing personal against you. I'm just, yeah, you're either too heavy for me, or, uh, you know, I'm I'm nursing an injury. I just don't know if I want to go at the pace that you normally roll at. And there's nothing wrong with that. You you got to it's better to it's better to say that then than walk home saying like, damn, now I'm hurt, and I can't come back for three weeks, because I didn't listen to my gut, you know, I didn't trust my gut. Um, you you were talking about the the idea of keeping your heart rate as low as possible during rolling. And that's something I'd like to explore a little bit. And speaking of of older grapplers, I'm I'm 40 myself. So, I'm I'm in the master's club, too. So, uh, with that said, what what how do you how does someone use breath work to keep their heart rate low when they're up when they're training with, uh, younger or faster opponents who are rapidly picking up the tempo on them? Speaker 2: Yeah, sure. But no, but I mean, in general, though, it seems like there is there is a strategy and tactics to survive. It's a game changer. Yeah, yeah. I appreciate your insight. I really do appreciate your insight on sharing all this, because it's an it's an aspect of Jiu-Jitsu that we don't talk about a lot. And at least not enough, you know. Uh, so I I appreciate giving insight. For anyone out there interested, uh, Glenn has a great instructional with us called Breathe to Win, mastering breath work and connection for BJJ success. And it's available right now at BJJFanatics.com. Uh, Glenn, for the people that decide to check the instructional out, what are some big points that you hope that they take home with them? Speaker 1: It's a game changer. Speaker 2: Yeah, so, so I mean, the the way in which I've done this, I'd like it to be a gateway for for sort of further research. So, the the big thing I'd like them to take away is, one, if they improve, uh, in their breath work just generally, they're going to improve on on so many levels. They're going to improve on almost like the psychosomatic side, the mental side of it. So, things like insomnia, dealing with somebody cutting them up in traffic, you know, being late for meetings, and they let everything go. It's like this you're using Jiu-Jitsu as a vehicle to improve your life, which is what what Hickson said. So, I'm I'm hoping I'm I'm I do justice to sort of Hickson's message on on that. So, you're going to improve all aspects of your life. You're also going to improve, I think, if you take it to heart, your general rolls. And what I've also done is given you a training method really for how you can actually, particularly if you're a gym owner or coach, but even if you're not, you can take control of your rolls. No I've never seen anybody, uh, say, oh, no, I I don't want to start in scarf hold against you. Pretty much everyone will take that position, right? Like, play with it. Get used to being down there. There's some practical like escapes in terms of things that, um, how to apply the breath work at different parts of the scarf hold, everything from bracing. I kind of explain how that crosses over into positions like mount. So, like Hickson Gracie's Upa. And, you know, the some technical aspects of the Upa, but like how important breath work is when you bridge and and filling up and using using that brace. And it's also a gateway in that, um, I think there are people that have gone going to massive depth on some of these things. And I think what ends up happening is, by all means, go and study them. But what I tend to find people do is they just look at the enormity of some of the other products that are out there. And I think they almost like do nothing, almost. What I'm giving you is the stuff that's going to get you going. If if you really want to improve your breath work as much as possible with as little effort as possible, that's what I'm kind of giving you. Um, even down to like, if you can't be bothered to do all of the stretches in there, there is one specific stretch that you should do every day, no matter what, if you can, or at least every other day, whatever you can. You do that stretch, and your ability to survive in that in that soul stealer type position, head and arm position, is going to rock it. And then when that starts to rock it, you're going to start realizing that it's everywhere. So, this is this is a a kind of it's almost like a gateway drug, right? It's going to open you up really to this smallest board of of breath work applications for all elements of your life. Almost all elements of Jiu-Jitsu. I'm still discovering all these years on things that I wish I'd realized about breath work, how it improves my Jiu-Jitsu. Even like two years ago, I wish, you know, if we'd rolled two years ago, and you got me in a triangle, I wished I'd know I I I knew what I knew now from going on this journey, because I'm way more likely to have success than I would have been two years ago. And it's not so anything that you're any techniques that you've got, it kind of improves multiple techniques when you know when to apply a a breath hold. So, for for me, this is just an absolutely massive area. And then you can go into things like, which I don't even cover, but you can go into things like if you want to, all the cold showers and the ice baths. And there's just so many ways you can take this thing. But I think if you don't start some form of Jiu-Jitsu journey, whether it's Wim Hof, whether it's what I'm talking about, whether it's some of the other instructors out there, gymnastic and natural. You you are you are kind of missing out, really. Speaker 1: Again, guys, it's Breathe to Win on BJJFanatics.com. It's available right now. So, go check it out. This will be a huge have a huge impact on your game, no matter what level you are in the sport. So, uh, check it out right now, BJJFanatics.com. Uh, Glenn, in closing, what are some of your major goals for 2026? What are some things that you hope to accomplish this year? Speaker 2: I I want to get my, uh, next, uh, my next, uh, like basically my next chess tile. That that I've I've got in in mind. I I need to, uh, I need to keep keep growing my AI company as well. Um, I think be a better father. A pretty good one. Speaker 1: Absolutely. Well, I appreciate you taking the time to be here today, Glenn. This was an awesome conversation. Well, folks, unfortunately, we're fresh out of time. Glenn, it's really been a pleasure, man. I appreciate you taking the time to be here today. Like I said, the the the subject matter that you brought to the table today is something that really doesn't get talked about enough in Jiu-Jitsu. So, it was great to be able to pick your brain and hear some insights and learn firsthand how breath work can have such a big impact on your game. And man, you're welcome back on the show anytime you'd like to come back. Speaker 2: Thank you, Ryan. It's been awesome. Speaker 1: Excellent. I'm glad you had a good time. For anyone out there that wants to keep up with Glenn, it's real easy to do so. Uh, he might be the only Glenn Powditch on the internet. Is that what you said? You're pretty easy to find, right? Speaker 2: I I am the number one. Yeah. Speaker 1: Excellent. So, if you guys type his name into Facebook, you'll find him. Make sure you follow him. His Instagram is Glenn Powditch. Uh, and then also, guys, uh, his YouTube channel is SPG Rossendale. Uh, if you guys are ever traveling through Rossendale, if traveling through the UK anywhere near Manchester, make sure you drop into his academy. Uh, great group of people, great training. Drop in if you can. If you can't drop in, uh, at his academy, you can learn from him anywhere in the world here at BJJFanatics.com. Like we talked about in depth, his instructional is called Breathe to Win, mastering breath work and connection for BJJ success. And it's available right now on the website, BJJFanatics.com. And that's going to do it for this episode, everybody. I really appreciate you tuning in. Please stay tuned for the next episode of the BJJ Fanatics podcast.