BJJ Fanatics 671: Dallas Niles

Speaker 1: Welcome back to the BJJ Fanatics podcast. I'm your host Ryan Ford. My guest today is a black belt in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. Uh he is as a blue belt, he was a Pan Am's champion, an American national champion, and an Nogi World's medalist. Throughout his career, he's competed internationally in Brazil and also in Europe where he medaled at the European championships. Uh he was one of the head coaches with his instructor Rafael Lavato Jr. for almost 13 years. He's now got his own school called uh Method Jiu-Jitsu in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Before pursuing Jiu-Jitsu, he was a full-time touring musician with his heavy metal band Destroyer Destroyer. Ladies and gentlemen, it's my pleasure to be joined today for the second time on the podcast by my good friend Dallas Niles. How are you today, Dallas? Speaker 2: Good. What's up? Speaker 1: What's up, buddy? Good to see you, man. So you you're just getting back from Europe. You were there again doing like a big seminar tour, weren't you? Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, so, you know, they have the the European championships every January and so I was there already in Portugal, uh in Lisbon, coaching one of my students, Kenny. Um and he's been tearing it up. He's one of my really tough masters guys. He's one of the ones he's about to start doing a lot more adult stuff because we're like, dude, you're just the masters mode is a little too easy. Let's push it a little bit. And so he he's crushing it. So I was there uh already coaching him. And then, yeah, from there, since I was already in Europe, I got to bounce around a little bit, teach some seminars. Um I was in Italy, from there I went to the Netherlands, from there I went to Scotland, and then I was in England. Um and in England I was teaching in Cambridge at uh Escapology, which uh is Tom Barlo's gym. If you guys know Tom, he's typically, I think the main uh commentator for Polaris. Uh really good black belt, super good black belt. Um and so yeah, I was in Cambridge and now finally back home and back to my guys. I missed them, so can't stay gone forever. I got my own guys to uh to uh beef up, so. Speaker 1: Yeah, well, dude, speaking of that, last time you were on, it was it was about three years ago that you were, maybe two and a half or three years ago that you were on last, and you were just opening the doors. In fact, I remember as we did the interview, we had to pause because a guy showed up that was doing some construction. He's like, hey, man, I got to install this thing for you. And so we took a break while he installed something. So you were like literally just about to open the doors of your school. How's it been since then? How's the growth been since uh since you first opened the door of um of your academy? Speaker 2: Yes, I remember that moment too. Uh that's funny. So, we are now, I believe, right at two and a half years in. Um the gym, man, it's been awesome. Uh we've got a little over 200 students now, you know, with including kids. Um and yeah, I mean, the growth, it's I've been working my my ass off to to to grow. You know, all I do is Jiu-Jitsu full-time. I don't have a second job, so I mean, every day I'm sitting right here where I am right now with you, you know, calling up potential students, people that are inquiring about classes, following up, just doing doing things for the academy, working to grow it. Um and so, yeah, yeah, man, it's been amazing. We we've we've had amazing growth. It's each each student is hard fought for sure. Um whether that be like good marketing, good sales, you know, it's very I think just the landscape of Jiu-Jitsu now is like very competitive. Um when I started Jiu-Jitsu, there was like two gyms, uh you know, there was two gyms to choose from. Luckily, one of the two was run by a world champion, uh you know, Rafael. And um so that was a blessing, you know, a lot of guys don't have access to that kind of level of training. Um so what a blessing that was. But yeah, I mean, I had like two gyms to choose from. From what I recall is like two academies and then there's like one like club that met like twice a week, very not serious. Um and that was it. And now, fast forward to today, and at least in my city, and I think this is happening worldwide, really, but there's a gym on every corner. You know, we have a lot of competition, a lot of competition. Um and so it was a real commitment going into the gym, being like, hey, this is all I do. This is this is my thing. Um and I'm going to go all in, and it's not like I have a a backup plan, you know, um I dedicated my life to Jiu-Jitsu and becoming the best I could be and becoming the most knowledgeable I could be for my students. Um and so yeah, I mean, the game the game is it's not easy, and uh you got to have everything on point, you know. You got to have good marketing, you got to have good sales practices, you have to have a great program, have people want to stick around in. And so, um yeah, for sure. It's been a it's been a hard work, but it's very fruitful, you know, at the same time. Like, I get to lay my head down at night knowing I got to help people and I'm not in some, you know, some job that I'm not passionate about and uh having to climb over people to climb up the corporate ladder, you know, none of that sort of stuff is going on. And so, um I'm very happy. Speaker 1: That's outstanding. Well, I'm really happy to hear that. I'm happy things are going so well and yeah, it's funny what you said there, man, about the the growth of competition in Jiu-Jitsu. When I say I'm talking about other academies, like as a business owner. Um you and I were talking off air that uh I I kind of bounce back between Brazil and the US. Uh whenever I'm whenever I'm in the US, I'm just there to visit my parents. Last time I was there, they live right outside Atlanta. And when I first started training, it was very much what you said. There was a couple there there was a handful of academies. I think uh Jacare Alliance got there first and others kind of followed suit. But man, my parents live an hour outside the actual city, and there used to be, I think, one or two schools out there. Dallas, I kid you not, the last time I was there on their road, there's like nine academies now. And and and I'm not exaggerating. Like it's one every two blocks. And so you see that and you're like, man, this is in like this is in a a smaller town outside of the outskirts of Atlanta. You can only imagine what it's like everywhere else. So very exciting to see, but I also like what you said there too, is that that comes with the responsibility of as a business owner to say, man, I got to make sure everything's on point. What have been some of the biggest um I guess obstacles or hurdles that you've found as an academy owner that you maybe didn't expect for other people out there listening that may want to have their own school someday? Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know, I I think it's very common when you fall in love with Jiu-Jitsu. I I think a lot of people want to have their own gyms, you know, and I knew I knew from early on, I was like, this is what I want to do. And I think that's not uncommon, you know. Um and so who wouldn't want to monetize their hobby? Like, you know, everyone would if you could. And it's just within Jiu-Jitsu, you know, there's not those checks and balances so to speak of like, you know, if you're going to try to become a doctor, you got certain things you got to do or you're not a doctor. In Jiu-Jitsu, you can just open up a gym and and a lot of people do. And so, I'd say one of the biggest hurdles comes with like it's just that you have to, you know, for for me, I get a lot of guys when they're from out of town that they've already been training for a while. You know, they're like, oh, hey, there's a Lavado guy there. He's got a reputation, you know, you you can look, I've got BJJ Fanatics out and stuff, and so people can see like my teaching style. And most people if you're in the know, you're in the know, right? You're going to know who Rafael is. You're going to know, oh, that gym's probably got some legitimate instruction. Where that makes up 1% of your of your of your student base. You know, 90% or more are people who are brand new. They've never done Jiu-Jitsu a day in their life. The name Rafael Lavado Jr., the name Mika Galvao, whatever it is, that means nothing to these people. They don't they don't know who those people are. You don't know until you're in that world. And so, you're trying to capture the attention of someone who doesn't know any better. And so, they Google Jiu-Jitsu in your area, and every, you know, there's a a list of gyms, and they all say the same thing. They're all like, oh, world-class Jiu-Jitsu in blank city, right? World-class, world-class, world-class. And it's like, that has lost its meaning because everybody claims that that's their gym. I mean, very rare that you don't see something along those lines, right? And so, when you don't know, you're like, oh, I I guess that place is closest to my gym or or to my house, or that place, uh they checked the pricing, oh, that's the cheaper gym. They just, I think, assume you're all the same, you know, or it's very easy to assume you're all the same. And so, it's hard to stand out, or even if you are head and shoulders, you know, you've got some world champion here, and some guy who opened up a gym as a blue belt, who didn't even, you know, his coach opened up a gym as a blue belt, you know, and and you get some of that sort of stuff going on. Um the guys they don't know any different, you know, and so, that and the thing that sucks is often times, you know, some of the gyms, you you walk in and they do it and they don't have a good experience, and they never return to Jiu-Jitsu again. Where maybe if they had some proper guidance, a decent gym, um they could have had a better experience. You know, not saying they wouldn't quit eventually. Jiu-Jitsu in general is a very high turnover sport. It's very tough. It's one of those things that I think a lot of people want to do, and then once they do it, they're like, oh, shoot. Like, you know, this is there's that initial honeymoon phase where it's you suck, but it's cool, and it's hard, and you're doing the thing, but then the honeymoon phase wears off, and now you're just like, oh, man, wow, this is tough. I don't know if this is for me. So, it's always got a high turnover rate, don't get me wrong. Um that's just how it goes, no matter how great the gym is or how great the coach is. But, you know, I think now more than ever, you see a lot of kind of unqualified people running gyms. Um and it's just it's it just is what it is, right? And it's just something you have to deal with. So, that's where it is so important to understand how to market it well. Um you know, I know guys that are world-class, uh and that are truly world-class, and their gyms aren't doing that well. And I've seen guys that are really borderline scam artists that that don't know what they're doing Jiu-Jitsu-wise. Um you know, they're in it for all the wrong reasons. And I've seen them have gyms full of people. And so, you got to try to check all the boxes now. It's not it's not what it used to be where you could be the only game in town, or you could be the only guy with one other competitor, you know. So, yeah, you want to make sure you have the best practices across the board for sure. Speaker 1: Yeah, what what you're talking about here is a very interesting topic because I think that for for a long time, and continuously, I think a lot of people tend to think that, okay, if I'm going to open a school and have success, I need to be, you know, a world decorated world champion. I've got to be have a lineage that like really is impressive and all that. What you're saying is so true that yes, it's impressive to people who are in the know. But but for people who are brand new to Jiu-Jitsu coming in the first time, they don't know it's like for them it's like Taekwondo. It's just another type of type of martial arts that they want to try to explore. They don't know anyone at all and your lineage really to to most of them, like you said, means nothing. Now, that can be frustrating for people who who are decorated and who do have strong lineages that are impressive. It can also be good for people who maybe come from a lesser known lineage but are legit black belts. It's like I think a lot of people sometimes think like, oh, well, you know, I haven't really done anything competitively, but I do I'm very passionate teacher and I've dedicated to my life to learning Jiu-Jitsu and I want to share the art with people and I want to do that full-time. But man, I'm not sure if I really have the confidence to open my own school because I'm not a world champion, or I'm not like, you know, the student a black belt under a world-renowned black belt myself. This is also a good signal a good symbol signal for them too, for people out there that might be a little on the fence of whether or not they're good enough to teach because at the end of the day, if if you have a strong good program, uh and a good culture inside the gym, and you're teaching legitimate Jiu-Jitsu, you can you can attract a lot of students. But I do hear what you're saying though, that if you do come from a strong impressive lineage and you do have the credentials, you can get mixed up into the into the crowd a little bit, and that can be pretty frustrating. Have have you found anything anything that seems to be a remedy for that? Is there anything that you're doing that kind of separates you from from the herd? Speaker 2: Well, you know, before that, I do want to touch on this. Like, this is like anything else, there's context, there's nuance. You do not need to be some decorated champion to produce good talent. That is absolutely that is the furthest thing from the truth. In fact, a lot of the guys that that are great at doing are not good at teaching. I can't tell you how many times I've attended a seminar from like an amazing guy who just phenomenal. But their ability to put that knowledge into you is very poor, you know, and it is a different skill set. Teaching versus doing, right? Two two different skill sets entirely. Um and then even within that, competition is not everything, you know, like some of my best I was a competitor, my coach was a competitor. We definitely had some I wouldn't even say we were a competition-focused gym. We had a lot of guys that we're still the minority, but some of my best training partners that were the best guys that pushed me the most, um and that I adored the most as training partners, they didn't like never competed. But they trained like they did. They were just dogs, you know, and and they're good. But going back to that, it's like, it is a separate skill set. And it doesn't mean you have to come from some name or something like that. In fact, my favorite Jiu-Jitsu fighter of all times is Rodolfo Vieira. And Rodolfo, you know, he came from the the Fada lineage, which is like a non-Gracie lineage. Like, you know, before before Rodolfo got on the scene, a lot of people had no idea about that lineage or that it existed at all. And now you look at GF Team and holy crap, dude, they've got they're a powerhouse, you know, and I I love their game their style. Um and so, it's not about that. It's it's just about putting in the work, putting in the time, you know, and and there's once again, context and nuance. Like, I know a guy who opened up his gym as a blue belt, but he was living in the middle of nowhere, Oklahoma. You know, he didn't have anyone. He was driving two hours to come train with us at Lavado's, do private lessons, learn, learn, learn, bring it back to his guys. Right? And and so, that's what you had to do. But I'm in a big city, you know, or biggish city, and there's a lot of big city. It's like, what irks me, I guess, to see is just the guys that don't put in the time. They don't put in the process. They're just like, oh, I'm going to open up a gym because I want to make money. You you people think it's easier than it is to have a gym full of people, full of training. It's all it's a lot of hard work. But you're like, oh, I'm a blue belt. I'm just going to open up my gym. And there's a sea of black belts around you. But you didn't put in the time to even get your black belt before you opened up your gym. And that to me, that shows the potential for doing things for the wrong reasons, right? And it's like, and and you're not going to say on your website, hey, guys, I'm a shitty blue belt and I'm opened up this gym. You're going to say, world-class Jiu-Jitsu, right? And so, that's that's the sort of thing, you know, I don't want to to to make people feel weird or or, you know, I'm not poo-pooing on guys that open up their gym under the right circumstances. But I'm seeing a lot nowadays of people just just not putting in the dedication, not putting in the time to get the knowledge before they open up their gym. Um and to me, that's just it's a it's just a red flag for me. But once again, the uneducated new person does not know what this person's background is or what's going on. Um nor if they saw it, would it would it even make sense anyways, you know, because once again, you don't know what you don't know yet. And so, you start having these battles of, yeah, competing on price, just going to the first gym that's closest to your house, even though it might not be a great fit. And so, you have to find a way to stand out, and and it's tough. It it's really tough. Uh and so, for me, it's all about just getting people in the door. Man, like, for my my gym, I can't tell you how many times I've had someone come in, try out class, like, yeah, okay, cool. Well, I'm going to check out a few gyms, which you should, like, that's that's good. Um it's just most people don't. They're they're either going to sign up at the first place they they tried, or they're just, oh, I tried it, not for me, and they're done. Right? So, but um I've had a million times though, where I've had people they try out some other gyms, and then they come back, and they're like, okay, I see I see now what's up. And so, Yeah, so you just kind of have to get people in the door. It's hard to it's hard to do it any other way because everybody is saying the same stuff, and their gym looks the same from the outside looking in, you know, and so, you just got to you just got to get them in the door and and and show them show them the way, show them the light, you know. Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I mean, that's the best you can that's that's all you can really do. And I think that people over time realize, like, you know, if if they start somewhere where where the instructor has not put in his dues and and and maybe is just less prepared to be a full-time instructor, that as as time progresses, I think people start to to realize, you know, especially if they start dropping into other schools and cross-training a little bit. I remember one of my old instructors, Jacare Calvanchi from Alliance, used to always say, uh in a room full of blind people, the one-eyed man is king. You know, and it's and it's true. I mean, there are there are guys that can have a little bit of knowledge and open up a school and have some success. But I I think eventually, you know, as your students start to adapt and learn and and, you know, educate themselves more about the art in general, they might realize like, yeah, over there those guys seem to have a little more structure, or there seems to be a little bit more, um, you know, especially if they start competing, they might realize, man, these other teams are wiping us with, you know, they're just completely killing us. Like, what's going on? And I, you know, so I I think eventually, I think eventually an inferior product gets gets realized, even even if even if at first the people, you know, don't don't don't understand it yet completely themselves. Speaker 2: Yeah, I just I feel bad, you know, it just makes me feel bad for for a lot of these guys. I've had numerous times where guys come in, and whatever belt they're at, our guys, the belt below that, who are just like average for their belt, are just destroying them. And and it's sad, and I saw it at Lavado's as well, you know, coming up the ranks, we get guys that would come in and visit and just what if they're a purple belt, our really average blue belts would be just killing them. And it's just sad because you could see in that moment that these guys are like, oh my gosh, I just wasted so much time just to go to that gym and save, you know, 30 bucks a month because they're cheaper. And now they're realizing that was not that was not worth it, you know, and and what's cool is I've seen guys over the years, they like, they join the team because they they saw it, they're like, man, this is where I need to be. Clearly, I'm not getting what I should. But then the downside is that is even more guys than not I'd see, they would just quit altogether. They they join the team for a short time, and then they just quit because their ego couldn't handle getting wiped every night by by the lower belts, you know, and so, the giving belts is, you know, you shouldn't sandbag people or hold them back for too long, but belts are given away like candy now. I mean, just and it's just a retention tool. I think it's out of fear that the student might quit. And so, a lot of coaches are just giving belts away, giving belts away. And and then that guy, you know, who you just gave a belt away to, he goes and visits a gym and realizes that he's not really deserving of that belt. And that's just that sucks for that guy, you know, and now he doesn't want to train with anybody anymore and get exposed anymore. And that's just a terrible feeling to have, you know, I want any of my students to be able to know anywhere I go in the world, I'm going to represent my level well, and I have nothing to be ashamed of. I don't have to be worried about training and getting exposed. Um and you just you just don't have that that anxiety and that fear. And it's, you know, just just helps you things it just helps you feel more free. Um and you want to know you earned what you have at the end of the day and and and be able to like really be proud of that and hey, hold your head high on that and not be like, oh, crap. I'm in this belt. I can't go. That that's just just a terrible feeling, you know. Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I think what hurts the most is what you mentioned earlier is when you see people choosing a school that they just don't understand is not is not the best product around. And uh and then as as a as a result of that, leaving and just being like, yeah, I guess Jiu-Jitsu is just not really I'm not really into Jiu-Jitsu, I guess. And it sucks because if that guy if they'd gone into the right school, that might have been a completely different experience. And we were talking about at the beginning of the conversation how how much it's the sport's grown, how many schools there are now in any given city compared to how it was even, you know, six years ago. Um it it sucks to see those people have a bad experience and leave when they could have been lifers in Jiu-Jitsu. They could have they could have grown the art and competed or at least, you know, been lifelong practitioners that pass it on to their kids. And we see the industry continue to grow and more and more. So it's uh yeah, it's it's it's it's it's it's important to um yeah, to have the best product that you can to prevent that from happening. So we want this art to grow and be as expansive as it possibly can be. Um Dallas, I know that one thing that a lot of instructors instructors go through, especially when they're the owner of the school, is they experience the difficulty of managing injuries while also having to be present for every class and teach every class. Uh you especially for young schools, like schools that are just uh just just getting off their feet, just going just getting going, you don't always have a an army of assistant instructors. And so, you're kind of expected to be there for every class. I know that right now you're going through a neck thing, uh like a like a you've got some some discs is it disc issues in your neck that you're dealing with right now? Speaker 2: I've not trained less in my life than over these last two years. Like, you know, I used to train, man, I mean, at least five days a week, you know, back when I was competing a lot. Um my early like first 10 years of Jiu-Jitsu, you know, whatever that was, first 12 years, I mean, it wasn't uncommon to train six days a week sometimes, you know, or or doing five days a week but doing two a days. And so, just lots and lots of training. Um and yeah, now, you're right, it's tough, you know, whenever you're teaching the majority of the classes. I think outside of my kids' classes, I teach every single class other except for like one class right now. And we're we're six days a week open. Um and so, yeah, there's always something I mean, just exhaustion too. Like, your mental bandwidth, you you you taught everybody, done everything, and now it's your turn to train, you're just like, I just need to rest right now. Um just fighting through that can be tough at times. But then, you know, of course, we're just getting older, like, you know, you're not as resilient as you were. And I think now I'm just at that point, I just turned 41 uh last month. And, you know, my body has been pretty resilient over the years. Uh you know, of course, I had injuries, but I was always training, and nothing that kept me off the mats for more than like a few months at a time. Um and now it's just, you know, it's just age catching up with you. I I've had this neck thing we were talking about. I've got spinal stenosis in four levels of my neck. Three levels is severe spinal stenosis, one is moderate, and then all all four of those have bulging discs. Um and so, they want to do a neck fusion. Now, this is something I've been dealing with for like years now. But with each passing year, it's just getting worse, so my arms are going numb a lot now, and um I have to sleep on my side with like a very specific angle to my neck. Too much this way or too much this way, I'm waking up with my arms being numb. I have to like stick my arm in my underwear to like hold it still because if it drips off, uh I start waking up. So, it's just it's gotten to where like I can't even get a good night's sleep. So, you know, I've been finally, uh got my MRI. I knew it was bad for a long time. I also didn't have health insurance for a long time. Um and so, anyways, I got an MRI finally, and it's like, oh, it's really bad. Uh the doctors here want to fuse four levels of my neck. And I don't want a fusion. Uh I'm trying to avoid a fusion at all costs. So, I'm in talks with some surgeons in Germany that will do disc replacement for that many levels. Like, here in the states, uh the FDA won't approve um disc replacement for more than two discs that are like like touching, uh or next to each other. And I need four. So, I've got to go elsewhere to make that happen. Um but yeah, this is just also I'm a half-guard player. And you got to think, you know, I spent almost 20 years playing half-guard against one of the world's best pressure passers. So, as you can imagine, I've eaten a lot of crossfaces over the years. And uh you know, and so, I think it's just taking its toll, you know, 20 years of that, plus I did some some DNA testing, some genetic testing, and I saw in that that I was predisposed to um some soft tissue injuries and stuff like that. And so, who knows, man, maybe part of that's genetic, and then you mix that with, you know, that many years of, once again, getting crossfaced from half-guard like every day. Um which it made my half-guard really, really good, you know, in fact, uh BJJ Fanatics, everyone knows Bernardo. Like, Rafael, he fought Bernardo, I think, more than anybody else in his career. I think they fought like eight or nine times. And so, I was constantly training with Rafael to get him ready for Bernardo. And we were always like, he was always figuring out how to counter my half-guard. I was figuring out the counters to his counters. And so, so goes the game, right? And so, you know, I wouldn't take it back for anything. Um it it gave my half-guard a lot of insight that, um I believe I have details that just your average guy would not have from feeling the different looks and and, you know, just playing that game with such a high-level guy. Um you know, it's amazing, but for sure, it took a lot of damage along the way. And I wasn't the black belt version of myself all those years. Like, there's those years I was just the blue belt version getting the shit kicked out of me, you know, so, you know, it is what it is. Um but, uh, you know, I'm I'm hoping I can get it taken care of this year and get back to hard training. You know, I've got my guys that are competitive, and I love training with my guys. And I've done so little of it over this past year due to my neck, due to being sick, uh, you know, I got sick last year, and that left me with like this crazy chronic fatigue for like eight months. And so, it was just like one thing after another, and and it sucks sitting there and watching my guys roll. And it's great because I get to coach and tell them what I'm seeing. But on the other side, it's, you know, it's just not what I'm used to. I'm used to training with my guys, pushing my guys. I love I love training. And so, it's been a it's been a weird year, you know, or past year with all that stuff. So, yeah. Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. Well, man, this really hits home with me right now because I was telling you off air, I've just now coming back from like a nine to nine or 10-month layoff, uh due to my neck as well. I've I've had a couple herniated discs. Thankfully, I didn't need any surgery or anything, but it was to the point where if I turned my neck like to the left, my whole right arm would just go numb, you know, like I just feel like pins and needles and, you know, the whole thing. And so, uh I had to take time off from that, and, you know, I I I it's really made me analyze my game now. Like as I'm coming back, I I there wasn't one incident that caused this for me. I think it was just, you know, nearly almost 20 years of Jiu-Jitsu for me now that's kind of caused uh a chronic thing. But, um it's made me analyze, okay, I probably shouldn't be inverting my guard so much anymore, which is a big part of my game. Uh and it's funny, I I was really thinking, man, what's the safest place for me to be if I'm on the bottom, it's probably half-guard. But then you just mentioned that half-guard might have been what what what was the nail on the coffin for you. Yeah, kind of depends, right? So, I mean, what are your thoughts on that? Like, what do you what do you think would be the safest place for me to come back and play if if I have a a a sensitive neck? Speaker 2: You know, I mean, don't get me wrong, half-guard, you know, of course, if I slip up, I can take some punishment, but now my half-guard's at a at a high enough level where you know how to protect your head, right? And so, if you're in like, let's say, coyote guard, for instance, you know, you your head should be in their belly where the crossface is not accessible. If your head is shoulder-level, shoulder-line level, you're going to get you're going to get like tons of crossface pressure. And the scary thing too is like, in a way, you get used to it. As a half-guard player, you know, what's funny is when I'm passing and I put a lot of pressure on a guy that wants to play a more distance-based game, so we're playing De La Riva, spider, anything. And you start to put a lot of pressure, you can feel those guys just fall apart. You can feel them break. Um because their game is based around keeping the distance. So, when you do manage to break through, you can usually feel that they have a tendency to to not handle the pressure as well. Where a good half-guard player, you can be crossfacing the crap out of him, and it's just another day in the office. It like doesn't bother you anymore. Your body becomes like conditioned to it. And so, I think a lot of this like, over the years, my body was it didn't hurt me in the moment. It it didn't feel anything in the moment. I was fine. Um and I could fight through it, but the long-term effects, you know, those are what come back to bite you. And so, you just have to really be sharp with your half-guard, you know, making sure you're getting the underhook, making sure you're hiding your head where you should be, you're protecting your head. Um and if you're not, yeah, you you could take some punishment. And I don't want to scare people and be like, oh, if you play half-guard, you're all going to end up like me. Once again, it's could be genetics on top of just who I was training with and for how long I was training and how hard I was on my body, you know. Um but, yeah, in general, though, you know, even now, I play a lot of like if I was to go compete tomorrow, I'm for sure playing half-guard. Like, that's my A-game. That's what I revert to. It's just like in my DNA, right? Even if I tell myself, I'm going to play this or play that, as soon as like the adrenaline hits and and you're everything's going fast, dude, I'm going to half-guard. That's where the world slows down for me. But in my gym, with my guys, I mean, I'm always working other aspects of my game. And I'm playing a lot of closed guard, a lot of De La Riva, things where I'm managing the distance and not letting them in. You know, the way I see it is, you know, you've got levels. You know, closed guard is its own world. It it's closed guard, it's just closed guard, right? And then it opens up. From there, now, I use my feet, and I can keep you with De La Rivas, keeping feet on your thighs or biceps, whatever it is. You know, I'm keeping you at like my feet level. If you get past my feet, I want you running into my knee and and into like my knee shield, right? I want you in my knees where I can either recover back to my feet, or I can attack from there. There are sweeps you can do from your shield, like Shaolin sweeps and and games like that. Um and then if you get past my knees, I just want to know that I've got the underhook on you. I've got everything. I'm going to play half-guard, deep path. Um you know, so you've got levels. And so, you know, you just want to stay at that level where you're maintaining the distance, playing that closed guard, playing those long-range games, you know. Um and what I do like about it though, too, is having my half-guard being my A-game, what helps now is like, I joke that my Jiu-Jitsu is like an onion, right? It's like like there's just layers and layers and layers. And then each one is going to make you cry. Like, you know, just like cutting into an onion. And by the time you get to at at your deepest, you get past you get the closed guard open. Okay, that's fine. The the open guard's there. You get past the open guard, the knee shield's in, you know. Um you get past the knee shield, now you're actually in my best guard. And so, the further you progress, the worse it should get for that person, which I think is really nice to have. Where if you're a long-distance guy, typically if you get past there, you're your half-guard's not good, you know, and so, that's why I know myself, Lavado, a lot of guys, when they're passing, they want to force the half-guard on their opponent, especially if you know they're not a good half-guard player. Because if you can force the half-guard on on a good De La Riva guy, your chances of mounting him becomes much stronger. Get to the half-guard, you're going to get to the mount, you're going to finish the game. You know, and so, it's just about being good at maintaining the distance, you know. But then within that, too, a lot of good distance players will invert also, just depending on what the scenario calls for. I invert, even though I'm a bigger guy, um I'll use inversions, but I use them far more seldom. I don't just spam them or make my game based around them. But there are scenarios defensively where if you get beat, you need to have that in the bag. And so, that's why I tell my guys, I'm like, hey, you don't have to base your game around this, but it's a good skill to have. Um it will there will be times where it's like, this is what you have to do. Uh or you just have to accept, all right, give up the pass, have good defense, get back to my guard, you know, and so, it is what it is. Jiu-Jitsu is hard on the body, you know. If you do it long enough, we're all going to have something. It may not be someone's neck, it might be their shoulder, it might be their knee, hip, whatever. It just is what it is, but I wouldn't take it away for anything. You know, people get hurt every day doing stuff like stepping off the curb wrong, you know. You're going to get hurt in life. I'd rather get hurt doing something cool. Is that what I like? Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. I I love what you said there about the layers of your game and kind of engineering your game in a way so that the layers get progressively more dangerous as someone starts peeling them back, rather than because because usually what you see is you see it the other way around. You usually see that you got your your your place that you start from. And as people start peeling back layers, you have like secondary and and you have backup uh games, basically, that kind of that kind of uh replace your primary game. I I like what you what you're saying there about how you try to think of it as you give them um not necessarily your A-game up front, and the more they start peeling things back and getting past things, the closer they're getting to your A-game, which gets harder and harder. That's a very interesting way to to design a game. I I really like that. Um yeah, you know, there's also we were talking about, you know, guards and, you know, how half-guard is now something I'm I'm thinking of really dedicating myself to. Um I've I've always been told over the years that anyone that's broken or older or slower or injured or whatever, half-guard is a really good place to be. And it's I I do play a lot of like shin shield, Z-guard type stuff in my game. Um so I'm kind of halfway there. Um but I I I really think I do need to just dedicate to the half-guard once and for all and really spend the time there because it seems like it seems like it's going to be safer for me than inverting my guard and things like that. So, Speaker 2: I mean, you're you're right. Like, half-guard is awesome because it it ages really well, right? And and the other thing too that I think goes uh unspoken sometimes is like, half-guard, you can play Gi and Nogi. It's not like really grip-dependent. Where a lot of guys in the Gi, they're going to have their A-game that's very grip-heavy. You got to have this sleeve grip, this collar grip, whatever it might be. And then Nogi, it's all it changes, right? You've got to have a good butterfly, a good half, a good X, single-leg X, something along those lines, you know. And so, for me, I always just liked playing guards that I could throw in seamlessly. Like, back when I was a blue belt, I placed at the Nogi Worlds doing no wrestling and doing no Nogi. I actually used to hate Nogi. I like it now. Uh but and it wasn't because I was like so good. It was just because my A-game was still very good. Like, it it was still very very relevant, sorry. Um it was still super relevant for Nogi. And I didn't have to make a bunch of adjustments. I was really comfortable. And so, I was just getting into my half-guard with all the guys and sweeping them and and then I'd yeah, I ran into a really good wrestler that I had a hard time sweeping. We just kind of negated each other, and he ended up winning. And yeah, it is what it is. So, but that was all because half-guard was my game. You know, that was just a luck thing early on, but that's something I like. You know, that's a lot of bang for your buck where you can have a game that is very transferable. Um it's hard enough getting world-class at any one game, you know, let alone now you've got to have multiple games, you know. Um so, for your average person, really putting in the hours to build a game that you can do Gi, do Nogi, because I'm a big I'm a big fan of both. You know, right now, we're in this wave of like Gi versus Nogi, you know, guys that want to only do one, only do the other. Which is cool. Like, it's there's nothing wrong with having a preference, right? Like, we're all going to have a preference. Um but, I am one of those guys that does think that if you're a Nogi guy, putting the Gi on will make your Nogi better. And vice versa. You get you get Gi guys that are super lazy, they don't want to get into the scrambling and the speed of Nogi. Um and for sure, in Nogi, you can use your athleticism more. You can slip out of things, limp arm out, rip you out, rip out of stuff because you're sweaty, and you're constantly chasing and chasing. Um but there's aspects of doing Nogi for a while that will make your Gi game much better. And so, I like having the freedom to do both and not having to overthink too much. Um you know, and and having guard games that are congruent, um and that help you with both. So, I'm just I'm just a big fan of that. Speaker 1: That's great, man. Yeah, Dallas, there's something you and I were talking about off air recently. You were talking about how the more experience you get in Jiu-Jitsu, the more simplified your game seems to become. Uh would you mind expanding on that for us? Tell like where has where has that been most obvious in your game, do you think? Speaker 2: Yeah, for for sure. And I I don't think this is a a phenomenon just to me. I think this is pretty typical, but you know, what's crazy is I used to have so many weapons uh to my game that I relied on to get the submission or whatever. And nowadays, there's things that like, like they were my A-game. It was like what I was looking for to to submit most people that I doesn't even cross my mind now whenever I'm I'm playing. You know, where there's still stuff that was my A-game then, that's my A-game now. Like, half-guard, you know, I started playing half-guard as a white belt. And I started doing crucifix as a white belt. And those are the two things I'm most known for is my crucifix and my half-guard games. Um and pressure passing, which is just like a Lavado, you know, Hibero, Shanji, Solo thing. So, all of our guys are very pressure-heavy. But, um, you know, I just the path can really open up and get much simpler the more skilled you get, you know. I I used to not want to mount people ever. And because I felt susceptible to getting rolled over. So, I'm staying in side control or trying to get them to turn so I can have their back. Which I think is an extremely common. Like, I I mount is one of the first positions you learn, and for a lot of people, a lot of people never feel comfortable in the mount, I think, even at at black belt. They they still want to get to the guy's back or stay in side control because they feel that they're going to get rolled over or exposed their base. Um and so, you know, the game, what I was referring to there is like, you know, for me now, a lot of my game is just mounting the guy and X-choking him or doing an arm bar. Like, the two two of the first things that you learn in Jiu-Jitsu, but for a lot of people, you start to attack it you you those are like the two last attacks you like really feel confident in, right? And so, some people have to do crazy stuff to trick somebody, and they're setting traps, but they've got to do a crazy inversion in here or do this there or set up this thing here. And there's nothing wrong with that too. Part of the fun of Jiu-Jitsu is the freedom of Jiu-Jitsu. You can make a game that looks like whatever you want it to look like. And, um for me too, I definitely did that. I modeled my game after fighters. I was like, hey, I love the aesthetics of that person's game. You know, what looks cool to me is not what's going to look cool to somebody else, right? And and so, I'm not trying to crap on that either. Like, that's awesome. Like, uh I used to do some pretty flashy stuff, uh all the time, but it was just because I to me it was cool. To someone else, they may not think that. But as time grows and goes on and on, you just you get better. Like, you know, you get better at pinning. You get better at knowing where to adjust your weight. So, you're not going to get rolled. Some of the things that were bothering you before are no longer bothering you. So, you can stay a lot more just simple, really. I mean, it's just as simple as that. You can be much more simple in your approach. There's no need to need to make that secondary transition, that transition after that, that transition after that. Because you're just dominating so much harder than you were from a control uh point of view. And so, yeah, my game now is a lot of still guard. I love playing guard, even though I'm a a bigger guy, I like guard. Uh I didn't grow up wrestling. And and I do like wrestling. I like Judo, I like wrestling. I'll fight for the takedown, but I didn't start fighting for the takedown until I was like a black belt. Like, I shit you not, like, I I don't think I got my first takedown in competition until I was a black belt. Because I didn't care. If the guy was going to pull guard, great. He's going to pull guard. I'm going to work to pass. If he's going to sit and have a fight with me, then I'm going to pull guard and just get to work. Um you know, and into my A-games. And so, um the game will will will transition, but for the longest time, yeah, I mean, I wasn't fighting for takedowns. I was getting into my A-game. Um and then looking to get to my crucifix or whatever it is. And and I still do a lot of crucifix, don't get me wrong. Um but I even stopped doing crucifix for a long time just to to work other areas of my game. Um but going back to that, now it's just like, I'm going to find a way to get on top. I'm going to mount. I'm going to hit an X-choke or an arm bar. And I mean, you'd be shocked at maybe you wouldn't be shocked, but the amount of like black belts I come across that are like not capable of that is is just it's it's common. You know, I'm not going to say it's crazy or anything, but it's common. And so, um yeah, you you just you get better. I think the game slows down for you. And you can do very simple stuff because once again, I think it's as easy as not needing to transition as much. You know, you're just, yeah, I got you in mount. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to turn. You're not going to be able to do this. And now you're cooked. Speaker 1: Dallas, I'll tell you what, man, we've reached about the halfway point of the show here. This is where I always play a game with my guest. Uh this is a game called The Pummel. The Pummel is a series of questions. Some of these have to do with Jiu-Jitsu. Some of them have nothing to do with Jiu-Jitsu. You've actually played this before last time you were on. Uh but if you're down to play again, I'd love to play this game with you. Speaker 2: All right. Speaker 1: All right, man. Speaker 2: Let's go. You can't scare me. Speaker 1: Let's do it, man. By the way, guys, this week the Pummel game is brought to you by BJJ Fanatics Gear.com, the best resource for BJJ gear online. The internet's full of cheaply made rash guards and tacky designs. BJJ Fanatics Gear.com offers the best materials available and refined designs for everybody. They've also got Gis and shorts and shirts and anything else you may need. So check them out at BJJ Fanatics Gear.com. Uh question one, what is the largest animal that you think you could beat in hand-to-hand combat? Speaker 2: Oh my god. The largest animal hand-to-hand. I'm scared. I mean, dude. Uh I want to say like a a chimpanzee, but we all know they're going to rip your face off. And uh a smaller monkey than a chimpanzee. And they're also scary. Speaker 1: Like a spider monkey or something. Yeah. Speaker 2: Yeah. Animals are scary. They're too unpredictable. Speaker 1: This game's also a really good dive like a really good glimpse into the minds of people and how well they understand the animal kingdom. This that's that's another reason I like this question because it lets me know what like Speaker 2: It's like a Rorschach test. Speaker 1: It's a Rorschach it's exactly it. It's exactly, exactly. It lets me know how realistic how realistic you uh you think. Uh if you could have a genie lamp and you could make three wishes, uh normal genie rules apply, no killing people, no wishing for more wishes. What three things would you wish for? Speaker 2: Oh my god. Bro. Uh let's see. I mean, we we have to wish for endless wealth. I mean, Speaker 1: Yeah, of course. That's Speaker 2: Just be foolish not to. Speaker 1: You'd be absolutely. Yeah. Speaker 2: Yeah. So, I'm not going to I'm not going to say that that's not on the table. Um you know, uh I would say, yeah, that um as as absolutely cliche as this sounds, like, for sure, we're going world peace on that puppy. Like, I can't I can't pick up my phone nowadays without seeing, you know, in our social media era, you get to see everything going on and, oh my god, like, the world's a mess. I try not to be a doomer. I try to stay very positive, but, um the state of things across the world is not not chill. And so, for sure, man, I would love to to to just not see that in life anymore. And and so, we're doing that. All right? I know that's super cliche. It sounds like I'm trying to win like a Miss America pageant. Speaker 1: No, but man, if you could if you could do it with a press of a button, I mean, why would you not? That that would be that would be crazy to not ask for world peace for sure. Yeah. Speaker 2: Yeah. And uh man, I think, you know, just uh the same thing, the the like freedom of not having to worry about money, not having to to to deal with any of that stuff for like my family, my friends, we're doing that for them too because I think of my dad in this scenario. I'm like, yeah, he's retired. I'm like, man, if he could just like not have to worry about any of that stuff, then I'm taking care of that as well. So, Speaker 1: That's great. Yeah. Speaker 2: Yeah. Sorry, I know those were really cliche. Speaker 1: Those were no, dude, those were great answers. Speaker 2: That's what that's what would happen. Speaker 1: Those were great answers. Very good. Uh have you ever had a supernatural experience? You ever like seen an alien or seen a UFO or felt like there was a ghost in the room or anything like that? Speaker 2: No, I wouldn't say I wouldn't say that. Um not that I'm, you know, I I am a spiritual person, saying thing very cliche to say that. Um but I do believe that there's more to this world than what we see. And so, uh but I I've had experiences where when I was younger, I I had I fell and I fell off a cliff, uh head first. And like, Speaker 1: Oh, damn. Speaker 2: Hit my head and shoulder and like tumbled down quite a ways. Had to go to the hospital. It was on like a this retreat I was doing. I think I was like in high school. And I could have died for sure, pretty easily there, snapped my neck or just been a lot worse off than I was. And to this day, I feel like something special happened to I basically had a concussion and that was it. And walked away from that unscathed. And uh yeah, I mean, I don't think that really fits in that category, but to me, that's something I still look back on is like profound luck or something. Um and I I 100% believe that there are supernatural things in this world. Um you know, whether or not you want to say that's crazy sounding or whatever. But I I just I'm not I'm not even like huge on the music. Like, I like some of their songs, but it's not like they're my favorite band. Yeah. But but they are good. They're like super super good. But just the whole thing that they're doing with his back story and everything and how funny uh John Goblecon is just like the best thing ever to me. So, Speaker 1: Absolutely. No, no, I'm right there. I agree completely, man. Um what do you think was your I I obviously anyone that's seen Dallas knows he's fully tatted up. What was your first tattoo and what's your favorite tattoo? Speaker 2: My first tattoo is this awful tattoo under my whoop strap here. It was actually the X-Men symbol. Speaker 1: Oh, hell yeah, dude. Nice. Speaker 2: I got that one when I was 18 at just the worst place. I was on my way to a concert. So, actually, I don't a lot of people probably don't know this, but Oklahoma was like the last or the second to last state to legalize tattooing. So, when I started getting tattooed, it was illegal in Oklahoma. Speaker 1: Really? Oh, that recent that that recently, huh? Speaker 2: Yeah. I think it got legalized when I was like in my early 20s. But whenever I started, it was illegal. And uh you like, so I live in Oklahoma City, and we would go to Dallas, Texas. It was like a three-hour drive. Um to go to concerts because, you know, a lot of bands OKC is not like on the top of their list of places to go. So, if we wanted to see the bands we wanted to see, we'd have to drive to Dallas all the time. And so, there's a tattoo shop or multiple tattoo shops that were on the border of Texas. Um because it was illegal. So, they wanted to be there so people could just go there. The same way they'd like set up casinos. Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. Speaker 2: Uh just on the border somewhere, there's tattoo shops. And I got it from just this guy who was absolutely terrible. Uh he drilled the crap out of me. It was like a lot of scar tissues. He he blew out the the area. He opened up his drawer to get his tattoo machine out and his got like a pistol sitting there. He's like a biker dude. And uh yeah, it it's absolutely terrible. It's it's been covered up, but it needs to be covered up more. Um you can still kind of see it under there. It's like the lines are not straight. Uh like I said, he just drilled the crap out of my wrist. Yeah. Um and so, yeah, that that was a bummer. Um and then my favorite tattoo is probably my belly. Uh I'll spare you guys from seeing it. I'm like hairy like a like a gorilla. Um but my belly. I have a this big alligator. It's cool like uh the style the style is like this almost medieval, you know, uh style alligator in black and white. Lots of scales on it. So, it took a long time. And that was one of the most painful tattoos I've had. I've had some really some really painful ones. And that was one that I was like, yeah, that that was that was the top of my list. Uh that and parts of my I have some parts of my neck tattooed and like the stuff on my collar bones, I almost tapped out. Like, and I've I've done like eight-hour tattoo sessions. Uh not that I like them. I'm not one of those guys like some people are like, oh, I don't mind the pain. I I like it. I don't like it. But um, you know, I I've done some long sessions. This one I could barely get through both of those. Yeah. Speaker 1: Really? The collar the collar bone. Speaker 2: Collar bone and and my belly. That's super sensitive areas for me for whatever reason. Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, I just I just recently got my the rest of my right arm. I got a full sleeve on the right arm now. And um I just recently got that finished up. In fact, while I was laid up with this neck injury, I figured, hey, you know what? Now now's now's a good time to go get to go get tatted up then because I'm not going to be training for a little bit. And uh it it was fine, but like kind of towards the back, like upper armpit kind of area on the back side, it started to be like, damn dude, I hope he's not here for too much longer. And then I was asking him. I said, where do people mostly quit? He says, it's usually like the neck or like, um he said the neck and then there was another spot. I can't remember if it was it might have been the collar bone actually, come to think of it. And uh yeah, he was just saying anything that's close to a big bone like that. There's there's there's a lot of sensitivity for a lot of people. So, Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. I was luckily my guy kept telling me when he was doing my neck. He's like, oh, we're almost done. We're almost done. I'm like, okay. I can do a little more. And then it's like 30 minutes later, I'm like, I can't go anymore. He's like, we're almost done. He's like, look at that. Like, like six times. Speaker 1: Yeah. He says that to everybody for sure. Speaker 2: He's like, look at that. Like, like six times. Speaker 1: He says that to everybody for sure. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 1: Dallas, that was the final question for the Pummel game. Congratulations, you win for the second time. You got your double underhooks. And once again, guys, the Pummel game was brought to you by BJJ Fanatics Gear.com. Head over to the website to check out the very best gear on the market. Moving on, I wanted to ask you about something we were talking about earlier. You were talking about how once upon a time you saw mount as a position that you weren't so good at, and now mount is one of your go-to places. What what do you think what do you think caused that switch in your mindset to go from, you know, not seeing mount as your favorite place to be to now being one of your go-to spots? Speaker 2: Well, I mean, 100% uh credit goes to my professor, you know, Rafael. He's got one of the best mounts in the business. You know, you've got guys like Hoger who, you know, watching Hoger, I I believe it was 2009 World Championships, I'm pretty sure. He uh he had nine matches, and I believe all nine guys, I think eight cross chokes and one Ezekiel. Uh I believe. But it was it was nine world-class guys that all got mounted and submitted in the mount with really basic like day one Jiu-Jitsu. And they could not stop it. There's nothing they could do to stop it, right? And so, you'll see the dominance of the position, but of course, like anything else, you got to put your hours behind that position. Now, a lot of it also was me on the receiving end of that for years with Rafael mounting me and X-choking me over and over and over and knowing it's coming and and not being able to do anything about it. And so, and then of course, his education, teaching us what he's doing. And so, it was around purple belt, I think, like I was probably like midway through my purple belt before I even started. Like, I used to avoid it. I just stay in side control and camp in side control. And then I had a whole series of submissions that I'd run through from side control. And then started building up that that that extra or the the mount just in general. And really what it came down to is just understanding the position like thoroughly, like road map style. Like, hey, if I'm sitting on the hips, then when they bridge, it's going to move me around, you know. And so, I need to adjust my weight. I have to be off to the side where I have a post. And now I'm too heavy on this side that you can't bridge me to this side. Right? And understanding, okay, my weight placement. Where my weight actually has to shift. Oh, okay, I have to be centered up. They have control of my arm where they could trap and roll. Then I need to be either off to the side, or if I'm not uh capable of being to the side, then I need to be up the body where most of my pressure is on the chest. So, now they bridge their hips, but I'm not sitting on the hips anymore. I'm on the chest. The hips aren't moving me at all. So, and just understanding how to navigate the position to a place to where it became second nature and the thinking process was like really out of it. Um but there's a lot of traps there within mount. Like, it's so funny because I'm a heavy guy. I'm over 200 pounds. You know, at any given time, I could be 220 to 240, you know, just depends. And so, you'd think, oh, a heavy guy's going to want to be mounting everybody and feel comfortable. And I didn't feel comfortable. So, I, you know, of course, a lighter guy's not going to. And it and it you see it. Lighter guys tend to chase the back more. Heavier guys tend to get more comfortable with the mount over time. Um and that's that's common, that's normal, but, man, I the back is probably my least favorite position to be on. Like, I still like it and I'll go for it, of course. And you've got your chokes and that's great. But once I understood the mount, uh it made me want the mount. And and there's just a lot that went into that. And so, I know I can remember it like it was yesterday. Just randomly, there was a time I was a purple belt, and, you know, and I was a decent purple I was like a good purple belt. Um and we had some visiting black belts come in from another gym. And I just mount them and X-choke them over and over and over to the point to where they were like, can we do a private lesson with you and go over the mount? They're like, we're black belts and we still don't can't do that. And being a purple belt, having black belts pay me to teach them the mount. Um I think that was a big thing where I was like, oh, man, like, I knew the mount my mount was getting good, but that was like a real eye-opener for me as like, what was going on. And so, I think that only propelled me more into wanting to keep dominating from the mount, you know. Yeah, I can imagine. Well, I I don't know if I told you this or not, but Rafael I I had the the privilege of doing a private with Rafael uh back in the day. In fact, my so he he's he's always been like me and my brother's one of our favorites Jiu-Jitsu guys. But my brother in particular, it's like his top favorite Jiu-Jitsu athlete of all time. And so, I actually got a private lesson with him for me and my brother for to for a Christmas present for for for my brother as a surprise thing. And Rafael during that during that uh private, he went over a lot of stuff for mount with us. And one of the things that I really appreciated about the the about the hour that we spent with him was that he was talking a lot about the importance of just retaining the mount. He says, a lot of people, you know, you think about all the attacks and the possibilities that are from there, but retention is just such an important piece of the puzzle that a lot of people overlook. Do do you feel that's something that you see people commonly overlooking as they're like these black belts that you're describing that were saying they need still needed some work on their mount? Is retention a big piece of the problem, do you think? Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, 100%. And fair like, to be fair, you could say that about a lot of positions, you know. Um when you're trying to just keep the position, right? Because I want to keep my guy flattened out. I don't want to let him get to his side. Um not that that's the end of the world by any means. You can absolutely recover from it, but it starts there. You know, how do I keep this guy stuck in on his side? And then how do I the power of the mount comes from attacking, but that's like where the where the the disconnect can be. It's like, same thing, okay, if I have a mount, I can not get rolled over by staying posted out. But that means I'm not actively attacking you. I'm actively just trying not to get rolled. It's a dance between how can I not get rolled and this person can't move and they can't get on their side, but I can be attacking them the whole time, right? And at the end of the day, you're not going to retain your mount if you're just so worried about getting rolled, you're posting. Well, that now lets me as the guy that's being mounted, freely put my frames in, and start bumping, getting everything that I need to escape. When really, the more I attack the guy's neck, the more my hands are going to be, oh god, he's he's, you know, trying to alleviate pressure. And now you've got them too busy, um trying to not get choked, that they can't even think about escaping. They can't even think about making those moves to start to get out of there. They're just 100% trying not to get arm-barred or choked. And so, that's where it is. It's the merger of like the control but the attack. You have to get those together to have a really effective mount. But once those things come together, it's like, you know, it's like quicksand for the guy on the bottom. The more every move he makes, you put him deeper and deeper and deeper in trouble. Um and that's what you're going to find from a good mounter. It's like, once they mount you, every move you make just got you deeper in the hole. And so, that's what you and I mean, that's what you want your Jiu-Jitsu to be like in general. Um you know, but especially like from a top game perspective, I want to know that every move they make, they feel worse off and worse off trying to deal with my pressure, whether that be from passing, whether that be from the mount, side control, whatever. Um but yeah, I think it's really understanding that road map of how to navigate the control with how to blend that into your attacks. And then you just overwhelm people and then it's just easy. Now, now every time you mount, mentally, that's a checkmate. And that's what you want. That's the the mentality. Once I mount you, I've already submitted you. It just hasn't happened yet. But I I've checkmated you now. Now you're just fighting off the little things, getting yourself deeper and deeper until I actually do finish you. Speaker 1: That's excellent, man. Yeah, for for anyone out there listening that wants to improve your mount, uh Dallas just wrapped up filming at Fanatics, uh his new latest instructional. It's called The Unstoppable Mount. Uh and it's available right now. And this is something really cool for everybody. It's completely free. Uh Dallas, we we appreciate you doing that. What made you want to give this out for free? Speaker 2: Well, I mean, really at the end of the day, it's because I do see that with the mount. It's like one of the first positions most people learn. And it's one of the last ones people really start to love and get comfortable with, um with their attacking and their ability to finish from the mount. And so, um yeah, I just want to help people and expose more people to my teaching. I'm I do a terrible job of social media and all that stuff. Um and so, I'm like, you know what? I'm going to try to do a better job. I just want to get my teaching out there to more people. Hopefully, it resonates with them and it helps, you know. Um and just get people comfortable. I've just I love the mount. And I just remember. I remember being the the blue belt, purple belt that did not feel comfortable there to now it's like my A number one place I want to be. And so, if I can help other people figure that out, um that's then then I'm stoked, you know. And then, you know, if if you enjoy it and you like my teaching, and that resonates with you, hopefully for some people, I my teaching is what does that. And then for a lot of people, it'll be somebody else, you know. But I want to get my my stuff out there to as many people as I can. Um and just share, you know, for me, I started teaching so early. I started teaching as a blue belt at Lavado's, teaching fundamentals classes. We had a curriculum. And so, I'd share the curriculum. And then, of course, that grew into me teaching advanced classes later on. And, um to me, I feel like the power, and I might have said this in the last interview, I can't remember, but one of my superpowers, so to speak, is my teaching. It was starting so early and not being so far removed from when you were struggling that I could remember it like it was yesterday. I was like, oh, man, when I was a blue belt, I figured this out, and this really stuck with me. And I think some guys don't even start teaching till they're already black belts. If they do teach, or in upper belt. And sometimes you're so far removed from when you were struggling that you may not remember that thing. It may not stick with you as much. Yeah. And for me, I think that was just a real big blessing of teaching so early. Is even to this day, 20 years later, I can remember, oh, hey, this one thing totally changed right here. And so, I just try to get that out as as much as I can to everybody that I get to teach. Speaker 1: That's outstanding. I love it, man. Yeah, I I've I've written I've written down every band you've listed so far. So far, you have not missed with any of the bands you've recommended to me. I've liked them all. So, I will check these out tonight. Uh dude, I found a killer band recently called um uh Of Glory and Decay. Have you heard of them? Speaker 2: No. Speaker 1: Dude, I'll I'll send you there. They're they're fucking good. They're they're from California. They're from Southern California somewhere. Um really, really good. Really, really good. I'll send you I'll send you their album. The album is called Awakening. And and I really, really like pretty much every song on the album. You were talking earlier too about um you mentioned Holy Fawn and how they're kind of uh uh like a melodic kind of kind of metal. That's actually one of the genres I love. I love like melodic death metal is is is one of the my favorite genres. Did I tell you before about the band called Bellacore? Speaker 2: Uh I think you did, actually. I that sounds familiar to me. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 2: I don't think anyone else would have told me about it. So, Speaker 1: Yeah, probably not. Yeah, yeah. They're good. They're from Australia. They sound they sound Nordic as hell. Like they sound really like a Nordic band, but they're they're these dudes from Australia and they're they're man, they're amazing. Um do you do you still play you still uh play pretty frequently, play guitar a lot? Speaker 2: Man, I go through waves of practicing daily, um playing because I like to write music. Um I have tons of written stuff. And I go back and forth between actually wanting to take the time to play again. Like, start a band. It's just being in a band after having done it professionally and, you know, it's just it's hard. It's rough. Um getting along with five other guys well enough to tour and stuff. It it's it can be very not fun, very fast. Um you know, unless you guys are on the same page. Um and having done it, it's I miss it. Music is my other passion outside of Jiu-Jitsu. Like, Jiu-Jitsu, I love Jiu-Jitsu. I loved the solitary aspect of Jiu-Jitsu. It is a team sport, but at the end of the day, you can't really be held back. It's all up to you at the end of the day. Like, are you going to put in the time or not? You know, no one's going to hold you back. No one's going to do it for you. And music, it's it can be different if you're reliant on having a bunch of members. Um and so, you know, I go back and forth. But I do love I love I love writing music and playing music. And so, I'll I will probably release music in the future that I've just done all the instrumentation for myself. Um just to avoid being in a band again, at least for a while. Um, you know, I I'm so busy with the gym and stuff that that really takes up most of my bandwidth. Um but I'm not going to write it off uh in the future. But yes, I do love but it goes through waves. I mean, I won't touch my guitar for months at a time. And then I will all of a sudden pick it up and start playing tons. And so, it just depends. Yeah, it's funny, you and I you and I are actually the same age. I'll be 41 in April. And um something I've I've during this injury, while I've been laid up not being able to train so much, I finally just made the decision, dude, I've been trying to learn guitar for like 30 years. I'm going to I'm going to seriously take this instrument seriously. I want to I want to get an actual instructor. I'm going to stop trying to just learn how to play a new song every couple months. I want to learn try to learn scales and I want to try to learn uh you the I want to learn the instrument itself. And so, I've I've taken it more seriously now and and come a long way actually from when I from where I was about a year ago. Uh but it's been really fun kind of picking up something new and it's cool to see like a lot of the a lot of the um similarities between learning an instrument and Jiu-Jitsu. You know, like the the way the way that you uh the way that you have the same thing where there's there's a set of fundamentals you have to understand. You learn how to apply and connect those fundamentals together and um it it is interesting applying the way that you learn Jiu-Jitsu to something outside of Jiu-Jitsu like an instrument. But it's it's I swear it's been helping me. I swear that my time in Jiu-Jitsu and learning how to learn on the mats has helped me learn how to learn guitar as well, you know. Have you found any kind of any kind of similar uh similar things when you're playing music? Speaker 2: 100%. It's it's no different. It's really very similar. Uh learning is learning. And like you said, you you know, you have to understand there's always a set of fundamentals that you have to know. And because that gives you the structure in which to move through, right? And and and then you know the rules so that you can break the rules later on, you know? And and um I I use that it won't resonate for everybody if they're not a musician, but those that are, it's like, it's very similar in the fact that I always think of it like this, if I have 10 guys, right? And we all go through the same education. We all learn the same scales, the same chords, um just the music theory. We all have the same education. And then you say, all right, guys, I want you to all write write me a song, you know, or write a few songs. You're going to get 10 vastly different sounding songs. And that's where your style comes in. Same in Jiu-Jitsu, man. You're we're all learning the same fundamentals. But the things that click, that resonate with us, they change. It depends on your body type. It depends on what's going on, what you like, what, you know, issues you have. But at the end of the day, you give 10 guys the same fundamental education in Jiu-Jitsu, their game, there will be similarities, but they will have different games. They should have different games. If you want to maximize it, you know, if you're long, you want to use your length to your advantage. If you're short and stocky, you're going to want to play closer. You don't have the length game. And so, um really, really similar in that aspect, you know. We're we're learning our fundamentals, but then we're going to develop our identity as fighters, you know, as we progress and go on. Um and our identities should look different. They should not be carbon copies of each other because what works for me best will not always work for you best. And so, absolutely. Speaker 1: Very well said, man. Yeah, very well said. Um Dallas, I'll tell you what, man, final question for the Pummel game. If a zombie apocalypse breaks out right now, what's the first thing you do? Speaker 2: Oh my god. Well, I grab my AR for sure. Speaker 1: Right. Speaker 2: Luckily, you know, I've got that for me. I I uh I have a van. I bought a I have a I have a car and a van. Speaker 1: Okay. Speaker 2: I'm I'm loading up the van. I've got my dogs. We're getting in the van. I've got my fiance. She's getting in the van. I've got my AR. And we're just getting as far away as we can. And uh hopefully, I don't have to fight too many zombies. I'm hiding for the most part. But I'm I'm ready. Speaker 1: That sounds like a good plan. Speaker 2: I'm not going to lie. I'm hiding for most of it. Speaker 1: Have you done any like doomsday preppy type stuff with your van or is this just a common family van? Speaker 2: No, so it's it's a van I got for the gym. Actually, so it's a it's a Mercedes uh Sprinter van. I oh, nice. It's actually getting painted right now. Uh one of my old students is this phenomenal like paint and body guy. His shop is full of like Ferraris and Jaguars and like he's got his uh the cars he works on are crazy. Um but it's getting painted right now. It's getting like Raptor liner painted. If you know what that is, it's kind of like the rhino liner type of like really rough texture. Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. Speaker 2: Like like truck bed liner. Speaker 1: Yes. Speaker 2: And so, it it will be doomsday ready. Speaker 1: That's awesome. Speaker 2: Um put like a lift kit on it. And I'm just I'm uh I'm making this thing crazy. But I got it A as partly for the the gym, driving it around, advertisement. I'll put put gym stuff on it. Um and then I want to pimp out the inside. I'm going to build out like just kind of like an RV setup, you know, where there's like a stove and a sink and beds and lots of seating and just make it really nice. And I want to use it to like take the guys to competitions, take it out, you know, maybe give the guys the keys for certain competitions and they can go. Speaker 1: That's awesome. Speaker 2: They can live in the van. Um and hang out in the van and not need to like pay for a hotel or anything like that. And so, Speaker 1: That's really cool. Speaker 2: Um and then of course, I'll go on trips with it. And uh it'll be something cool for me and my fiance. But also something that the guys at the gym can use and and yeah. Speaker 1: And of course, your zombie assault vehicle as well. It it can it can double up as all that. If you if you're if if not only is it good for vacations and competition trips, but zombie apocalypse, you have a place to go and a place to be mobile. Speaker 2: Yep. And and we can run over zombies. I'm going to put up front like bumper thing on it. We'll we'll plow them over. So. Speaker 1: Get some like spike those spiked lug nuts, you know, that chop stuff up as you drive by. Yeah. Speaker 2: Yeah, some Mad Max vibes. Speaker 1: That's awesome. Well, Dallas, that was the final question for the Pummel game. Congratulations, you win for the second time. You got your double underhooks. And once again, guys, the Pummel game was brought to you by BJJ Fanatics Gear.com. Head over to the website to check out the very best gear on the market. Moving on, I wanted to ask you about something we were talking about earlier. You were talking about how once upon a time you saw mount as a position that you weren't so good at, and now mount is one of your go-to places. What what do you think what do you think caused that switch in your mindset to go from, you know, not seeing mount as your favorite place to be to now being one of your go-to spots? Speaker 2: Well, I mean, 100% uh credit goes to my professor, you know, Rafael. He's got one of the best mounts in the business. You know, you've got guys like Hoger who, you know, watching Hoger, I I believe it was 2009 World Championships, I'm pretty sure. He uh he had nine matches, and I believe all nine guys, I think eight cross chokes and one Ezekiel. Uh I believe. But it was it was nine world-class guys that all got mounted and submitted in the mount with really basic like day one Jiu-Jitsu. And they could not stop it. There's nothing they could do to stop it, right? And so, you'll see the dominance of the position, but of course, like anything else, you got to put your hours behind that position. Now, a lot of it also was me on the receiving end of that for years with Rafael mounting me and X-choking me over and over and over and knowing it's coming and and not being able to do anything about it. And so, and then of course, his education, teaching us what he's doing. And so, it was around purple belt, I think, like I was probably like midway through my purple belt before I even started. Like, I used to avoid it. I just stay in side control and camp in side control. And then I had a whole series of submissions that I'd run through from side control. And then started building up that that that extra or the the mount just in general. And really what it came down to is just understanding the position like thoroughly, like road map style. Like, hey, if I'm sitting on the hips, then when they bridge, it's going to move me around, you know. And so, I need to adjust my weight. I have to be off to the side where I have a post. And now I'm too heavy on this side that you can't bridge me to this side. Right? And understanding, okay, my weight placement. Where my weight actually has to shift. Oh, okay, I have to be centered up. They have control of my arm where they could trap and roll. Then I need to be either off to the side, or if I'm not uh capable of being to the side, then I need to be up the body where most of my pressure is on the chest. So, now they bridge their hips, but I'm not sitting on the hips anymore. I'm on the chest. The hips aren't moving me at all. So, and just understanding how to navigate the position to a place to where it became second nature and the thinking process was like really out of it. Um but there's a lot of traps there within mount. Like, it's so funny because I'm a heavy guy. I'm over 200 pounds. You know, at any given time, I could be 220 to 240, you know, just depends. And so, you'd think, oh, a heavy guy's going to want to be mounting everybody and feel comfortable. And I didn't feel comfortable. So, I, you know, of course, a lighter guy's not going to. And it and it you see it. Lighter guys tend to chase the back more. Heavier guys tend to get more comfortable with the mount over time. Um and that's that's common, that's normal, but, man, I the back is probably my least favorite position to be on. Like, I still like it and I'll go for it, of course. And you've got your chokes and that's great. But once I understood the mount, uh it made me want the mount. And and there's just a lot that went into that. And so, I know I can remember it like it was yesterday. Just randomly, there was a time I was a purple belt, and, you know, and I was a decent purple I was like a good purple belt. Um and we had some visiting black belts come in from another gym. And I just mount them and X-choke them over and over and over to the point to where they were like, can we do a private lesson with you and go over the mount? They're like, we're black belts and we still don't can't do that. And being a purple belt, having black belts pay me to teach them the mount. Um I think that was a big thing where I was like, oh, man, like, I knew the mount my mount was getting good, but that was like a real eye-opener for me as like, what was going on. And so, I think that only propelled me more into wanting to keep dominating from the mount, you know. Yeah, I can imagine. Well, I I don't know if I told you this or not, but Rafael I I had the the privilege of doing a private with Rafael uh back in the day. In fact, my so he he's he's always been like me and my brother's one of our favorites Jiu-Jitsu guys. But my brother in particular, it's like his top favorite Jiu-Jitsu athlete of all time. And so, I actually got a private lesson with him for me and my brother for to for a Christmas present for for for my brother as a surprise thing. And Rafael during that during that uh private, he went over a lot of stuff for mount with us. And one of the things that I really appreciated about the the about the hour that we spent with him was that he was talking a lot about the importance of just retaining the mount. He says, a lot of people, you know, you think about all the attacks and the possibilities that are from there, but retention is just such an important piece of the puzzle that a lot of people overlook. Do do you feel that's something that you see people commonly overlooking as they're like these black belts that you're describing that were saying they need still needed some work on their mount? Is retention a big piece of the problem, do you think? Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, 100%. And fair like, to be fair, you could say that about a lot of positions, you know. Um when you're trying to just keep the position, right? Because I want to keep my guy flattened out. I don't want to let him get to his side. Um not that that's the end of the world by any means. You can absolutely recover from it, but it starts there. You know, how do I keep this guy stuck in on his side? And then how do I the power of the mount comes from attacking, but that's like where the where the the disconnect can be. It's like, same thing, okay, if I have a mount, I can not get rolled over by staying posted out. But that means I'm not actively attacking you. I'm actively just trying not to get rolled. It's a dance between how can I not get rolled and this person can't move and they can't get on their side, but I can be attacking them the whole time, right? And at the end of the day, you're not going to retain your mount if you're just so worried about getting rolled, you're posting. Well, that now lets me as the guy that's being mounted, freely put my frames in, and start bumping, getting everything that I need to escape. When really, the more I attack the guy's neck, the more my hands are going to be, oh god, he's he's, you know, trying to alleviate pressure. And now you've got them too busy, um trying to not get choked, that they can't even think about escaping. They can't even think about making those moves to start to get out of there. They're just 100% trying not to get arm-barred or choked. And so, that's where it is. It's the merger of like the control but the attack. You have to get those together to have a really effective mount. But once those things come together, it's like, you know, it's like quicksand for the guy on the bottom. The more every move he makes, you put him deeper and deeper and deeper in trouble. Um and that's what you're going to find from a good mounter. It's like, once they mount you, every move you make just got you deeper in the hole. And so, that's what you and I mean, that's what you want your Jiu-Jitsu to be like in general. Um, you know, but especially like from a top game perspective, I want to know that every move they make, they feel worse off and worse off trying to deal with my pressure, whether that be from passing, whether that be from the mount, side control, whatever. Um, but yeah, I think it's really understanding that road map of how to navigate the control with how to blend that into your attacks. And then you just overwhelm people and then it's just easy. Now, now every time you mount, mentally, that's a checkmate. And that's what you want. That's the the mentality. Once I mount you, I've already submitted you. It just hasn't happened yet. But I I've checkmated you now. Now you're just fighting off the little things, getting yourself deeper and deeper until I actually do finish you. Speaker 1: That's excellent, man. Yeah, for for anyone out there listening that wants to improve your mount, uh Dallas just wrapped up filming at Fanatics, uh his new latest instructional. It's called The Unstoppable Mount. Uh and it's available right now. And this is something really cool for everybody. It's completely free. Uh Dallas, we we appreciate you doing that. What made you want to give this out for free? Speaker 2: Well, I mean, really at the end of the day, it's because I do see that with the mount. It's like one of the first positions most people learn. And it's one of the last ones people really start to love and get comfortable with, um with their attacking and their ability to finish from the mount. And so, I just thought it'd be really cool to give this free gift out. Um I don't know how long it'll be free, so hurry up and download it while it is. Um but, um yeah, I just want to help people and expose more people to my teaching. I'm I do a terrible job of social media and all that stuff. Um and so, I'm like, you know what? I'm going to try to do a better job. I just want to get my teaching out there to more people. Hopefully, it resonates with them and it helps, you know. Um and just get people comfortable. I've just I love the mount. And I just remember. I remember being the the blue belt, purple belt that did not feel comfortable there to now it's like my A number one place I want to be. And so, if I can help other people figure that out, um that's then then I'm stoked, you know. And then, you know, if if you enjoy it and you like my teaching, and that resonates with you, hopefully for some people, I my teaching is what does that. And then for a lot of people, it'll be somebody else, you know. But I want to get my my stuff out there to as many people as I can. Um and just share, you know, for me, I started teaching so early. I started teaching as a blue belt at Lavado's, teaching fundamentals classes. We had a curriculum. And so, I'd share the curriculum. And then, of course, that grew into me teaching advanced classes later on. And, um to me, I feel like the power, and I might have said this in the last interview, I can't remember, but one of my superpowers, so to speak, is my teaching. It was starting so early and not being so far removed from having those problems that I could remember it like it was yesterday. I was like, oh, man, when I was a blue belt, I figured this out, and this really stuck with me. And I think some guys don't even start teaching till they're already black belts. If they do teach, or in upper belt. And sometimes you're so far removed from when you were struggling that you may not remember that thing. It may not stick with you as much. Yeah. And for me, I think that was just a real big blessing of teaching so early. Is even to this day, 20 years later, I can remember, oh, hey, this one thing totally changed right here. And so, I just try to get that out as as much as I can to everybody that I get to teach. Speaker 1: That's really awesome. I really like that. Well, thank you. Thank you again for for doing that. And yeah, for anyone out there that wants to check it check it out again, it's called The Unstoppable Mount. And for the time being, it's free on BJJFanatics.com. So go grab it. Um you're saying that you were terrible, you feel like you're terrible at social media, man, but your new Instagram's pretty fire. What made you decide to start uh putting out more technique videos on a on a regular basis and really kind of dial in your social media and your Instagram? Speaker 2: Um man, that was just it. I just realizing, you know, I would like to expose more people to my teaching. Um, you know, I just love I love I love getting to share my Jiu-Jitsu with people, whether that be through my students and my classes, teaching seminars, or having, man, I can't tell you. I've gotten random messages to like from people in Poland or whatever. They're like, man, I got your your half-guard, and it helped me with this thing. And like, there's just when you see that, there's nothing better than that. Uh for me. And so, I just want to expose more people to my teaching. Um and hopefully, it resonates, you know. Sometimes you have two guys teaching you the same thing, but the way one person says it, it just clicks, you know. And hopefully, for some people, I my teaching is what does that. And then for a lot of people, it'll be somebody else, you know. But I want to get my my stuff out there to as many people as I can. Um and just share, you know, for me, I started teaching so early. I started teaching as a blue belt at Lavado's, teaching fundamentals classes. We had a curriculum. And so, I'd share the curriculum. And then, of course, that grew into me teaching advanced classes later on. And, um to me, I feel like the power, and I might have said this in the last interview, I can't remember, but one of my superpowers, so to speak, is my teaching. It was starting so early and not being so far removed from having those problems that I could remember it like it was yesterday. I was like, oh, man, when I was a blue belt, I figured this out, and this really stuck with me. And I think some guys don't even start teaching till they're already black belts. If they do teach, or in upper belt. And sometimes you're so far removed from when you were struggling that you may not remember that thing. It may not stick with you as much. Yeah. And for me, I think that was just a real big blessing of teaching so early. Is even to this day, 20 years later, I can remember, oh, hey, this one thing totally changed right here. And so, I just try to get that out as as much as I can to everybody that I get to teach. Speaker 1: That's outstanding. I love it, man. Well, yeah, guys, if uh if you're not following him on Instagram already, the new channel we're talking about is Dallas Niles_BJJ. Uh so make sure you guys are following him on Instagram. Uh Dallas, in closing, what are some of your major goals for 2026? What are some things that you uh that you hope to accomplish this year? Speaker 2: Man, my main things 2026, obviously, keep growing my academy. Um I have such great students, and of course, I just want to keep keep with that. Keep growing it, have a healthy, amazing gym, uh here in Tulsa. And then outside of that, getting my neck fixed is high on the list. Um hopefully, get that neck, uh get those disc replacements. Get back to training heavy with my guys. Um and then I used to have a Gi company back when I was a blue belt. Sunny a little bit about this before. Um and I stopped doing it. We were starting to get some traction, but I had some partners, and they just didn't love doing it the way I did. And it was one of those things back then that I was in no way could I keep doing that by myself. Uh it was just impossible. I was just a poor blue belt, no money, you know, just living at home with his dad at past an age where you should be doing that just to be able to travel the world and compete and and and uh, you know, continue my Jiu-Jitsu passion of of being a a top competitor. And so, uh that had to go to the wayside. And I am now finally starting to put the pieces back together. Um for my new company. Um and it's not going to be your average Jiu-Jitsu apparel company. Um we've got some really special things in the works. I can't give it away. Um I can't make the world sign an NDA right now. But uh I can't give everything away, but we're we've got some really next-level crazy stuff in the works that doesn't exist yet. And uh I'm just really excited about it. And so, yeah, getting getting my health, you know, where I need it to be with my neck, getting my uh this company, uh we're I'm working with a guy in London right now, putting some things together. And uh as always, just helping level up my guys, uh here in Tulsa. Just keep them growing on the path, introduce more people to Jiu-Jitsu. And uh yeah, man, that's going to be it's going to be what this year is all about. Speaker 1: Well, folks, unfortunately, we're fresh out of time. Dallas, always a pleasure chopping it up with you, man. I appreciate you taking the time to be here. Uh you always have great topics to bring to the table. It's always really appreciated. And I wish you the best of luck with everything this year from your neck, to the school, to to just everything you have going on. And you're always welcome back on the show whenever you want to come back. Speaker 2: Appreciate it, my man. I love talking to you and yeah, my pleasure. It's happy to be here. Speaker 1: Likewise, man. I really enjoy it. And I will be checking out. I took thorough notes of all the bands you recommended this time. So far, you have not missed with any of the bands you've recommended to me. I've liked them all. So, I will check these out tonight. Uh for anyone out there that wants to keep up with Dallas, it's real easy to do so. He's active on Facebook. Uh you can find him there Dallas Niles Method BJJ. Uh he's also got an Instagram that we discussed, uh Dallas Niles_BJJ. Make sure you're uh following that. His YouTube channel, he's just ramping it back up again now. Uh it's Dallas Niles BJJ. Make sure you guys subscribe and hit the little bell icon to get notified when he adds new content. If you guys are ever traveling through Tulsa, Oklahoma, uh man, make sure you drop in and get some uh get some training. It's Method MethodJJTulsa.com is the website for his school. Phenomenal training center. Uh he's got obviously lots of experience as a teacher and he comes from a great lineage. So, drop in and get some training. Uh if you can't drop into his school in Oklahoma, you can learn from Dallas anywhere in the world here at BJJFanatics.com. You've got no excuse to not check out his most recent instructional because as he said for right now, it's free. Uh it's called The Unstoppable Mount. And you can get it right now at BJJFanatics.com without spending a dime. If you like it, check out his other instructionals. He's got a great uh crucifix instructional and a half-guard instructional that I highly recommend. Uh so head over to BJJFanatics.com and check all those out. And that's going to do it for this episode, everybody. I really appreciate you tuning in. Please stay tuned for the next episode of the BJJ Fanatics podcast.