BJJ Fanatics 671: Dallas Niles

Speaker 1: Welcome back to the BJJ Fanatics Podcast. I'm your host Ryan Ford. My guest today is a black belt in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. Uh he is as a blue belt, he was a Pan Am's champion, an American national champion, and an Nogi World's medalist. Throughout his career, he's competed internationally in Brazil and also in Europe where he medaled at the European Championships. Uh he was one of the head coaches with his instructor Rafael Lovato Jr. for almost 13 years. He's now got his own school called uh Method Jiu-Jitsu in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Before pursuing Jiu-Jitsu, he was a full-time touring musician with his heavy metal band Destroyer Destroyer. Ladies and gentlemen, it's my pleasure to be joined today for the second time on the podcast by my good friend Dallas Niles. How are you today, Dallas? Speaker 2: Good. What's up? Speaker 1: What's up, buddy? Good to see you, man. So you you're just getting back from Europe. You were there again doing like a big seminar tour, weren't you? Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, so, you know, they have the the European Championships every January. And so I was there already in Portugal, uh in Lisbon, coaching one of my students, Kenny. Um and he's been tearing it up. He's one of my really tough masters guys. He's one of the ones he's about to start doing a lot more adult stuff because we're like, dude, you're just the masters mode is a little too easy. Let's push it a little bit. And so he he's crushing it. So I was there, uh already coaching him. And then, yeah, from there, since I was already in Europe, I got to bounce around a little bit, teach some seminars. Um, I was in Italy, from there I went to the Netherlands, from there I went to Scotland, and then I was in England. Um, and in England, I was teaching in Cambridge at uh Escapology, which uh is Tom Barlo's gym. If you guys know Tom, he's typically, I think the main uh commentator for Polaris. Uh really good black belt, super good black belt. Um, and so yeah, I was in Cambridge and now finally back home and back to my guys. I missed them, so can't stay gone forever. I got my own guys to to uh beef up, so. Speaker 1: Yeah, well, dude, speaking of that, last time you were on, it was it was about three years ago that you were, maybe two and a half or three years ago that you were on last, and you were just opening the doors. In fact, I remember as we did the interview, we had to pause because a guy showed up that was doing some construction. He's like, hey, man, I got to install this thing for you. And so we took a break while he installed something. So you were like literally just about to open the doors of your school. How's it been since then? How's the growth been since uh since you first opened uh the door of um of your academy? Speaker 2: Yes, I remember that moment too. Uh, that's funny. So, we are now, I believe, right at two and a half years in. Um, the gym, man, it's been awesome. Uh, we've got a little over 200 students now, you know, with including kids. Um, and yeah, I mean, the growth, it's I've been working my my ass off to to to grow. You know, all I do is Jiu-Jitsu full-time. I don't have a second job. So, I mean, every day, I'm sitting right here where I am right now with you, you know, calling up potential students, people that are inquiring about classes, following up, just doing doing things for the academy, working to grow it. Um, and so, uh, yeah, man, it's been amazing. We we've we've had amazing growth. It's each each student is hard fought for sure. Um, whether that be like good marketing, good sales, you know, it's very I think just the landscape of Jiu-Jitsu now is like very competitive. Um, when I started Jiu-Jitsu, there was like two gyms, uh, you know, there was two gyms to choose from. Luckily, one of the two was run by a world champion, uh, you know, Rafael. And um, so that was a blessing, you know, a lot of guys don't have access to that kind of level of training. Um, so what a blessing that was. But yeah, I mean, I had like two gyms to choose from. From what I recall is like two academies, and then there's like one like club that met like twice a week, very not serious. Um, and that was it. And now, fast forward to today, and at least in my city, and I think this is happening worldwide, really, but there's a gym on every corner. You know, we have a lot of competition, a lot of competition. Um, and so it was a real commitment going into the gym, being like, hey, this is all I do. This is this is my thing. Um, and I'm going to go all in, and it's not like I have a a backup plan, you know, um, I dedicated my life to Jiu-Jitsu and becoming the best I could be and becoming the most knowledgeable I could be for my students. Um, and so, yeah, I mean, the game the game is it's not easy, and you got to have everything on point, you know. You got to have good marketing, you got to have good sales practices. You have to have a great program, have people want to stick around in. And so, um, yeah, for sure. It's been a it's been hard work, but it's very fruitful, you know, at the same time. Like, I get to lay my head down at night, knowing I got to help people, and I'm not in some, you know, some job that I'm not passionate about and uh having to climb over people to climb up the corporate ladder, you know, none of that sort of stuff is going on. And so, um, I'm very happy. Speaker 1: That's outstanding. Well, I'm really happy to hear that. I'm happy that things are going so well and yeah, it's funny what you said there, man, about the the growth of competition in Jiu-Jitsu. When I say I'm talking about other academies, like as a business owner. Um, you and I were talking off air that uh I I kind of bounce back between Brazil and the US. Uh whenever I'm whenever I'm in the US, I'm just there to visit my parents. Last time I was there, they live right outside Atlanta. And when I first started training, it was very much what you said. There was a couple there was a handful of academies. Uh I think uh Jacare uh at Alliance got there first and others kind of followed suit. But man, my parents live an hour outside the actual city, and there used to be I think one or two schools out there. Dallas, I kid you not, the last time I was there on their road, there's like nine academies now. And and and I'm not exaggerating. Like it's one every two blocks. And so you see that and you're like, man, this is in like this is in a smaller town outside of the outskirts of Atlanta. You can only imagine what it's like everywhere else. So very exciting to see, but I also like what you said there too is that that comes with the responsibility of as a business owner to say, man, I got to make sure everything's on point. What have been some of the biggest um, I guess obstacles or hurdles that you've found as an academy owner that you maybe didn't expect for other people out there listening that may want to have their own school someday? Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know, I I think it's very common when you fall in love with Jiu-Jitsu, I I think a lot of people want to have their own gyms, you know, and I knew I knew from early on, I was like, this is what I want to do. And I think that's not uncommon, you know. Um, and so who wouldn't want to monetize their hobby? Like, you know, everyone would if you could. And it's just within Jiu-Jitsu, you know, there's not those checks and balances so to speak of like, you know, if you're going to try to become a doctor, you got certain things you got to do or you're not a doctor. In Jiu-Jitsu, you can just open up a gym. And and a lot of people do. And so, I'd say one of the biggest hurdles comes with like, it's just that you have to, you know, for for me, I get a lot of guys when they're from out of town that they've already been training for a while. You know, they're like, oh, hey, there's a Lovato guy there. He's got a reputation, you know, you can look, I've got BJJ Fanatics out and stuff. And so people can see like my teaching style. And most people if you're in the know, you're in the know, right? You're going to know who Rafael is. You're going to know, oh, that gym's probably got some legitimate instruction. Where that makes up 1% of your of your of your student base. You know, 90% or more are people who are brand new. They've never done Jiu-Jitsu a day in their life. The name Rafael Lovato Jr., the name Mika Galvao, whatever it is, that means nothing to these people. They don't they don't know who those people are. You don't know until you're in that world. And so, you're trying to capture the attention of someone who doesn't know any better. And so, they Google Jiu-Jitsu in your area, and every, you know, there's a a list of gyms, and they all say the same thing. They're all like, oh, world-class Jiu-Jitsu in blank city, right? World-class, world-class, world-class. And it's like, that has lost its meaning because everybody claims that that's their gym. I mean, very rare that you don't see something along those lines, right? And so, when you don't know, you're like, oh, I I guess that place is closest to my gym or or to my house, or that place uh they checked the pricing, oh, that's the cheaper gym. They just I think assume you're all the same, you know, or it's very easy to assume you're all the same. And so it's hard to stand out, or even if you are head and shoulders, you know, you've got some world champion here, and some guy who opened up a gym as a blue belt, who didn't even, you know, his coach opened up a gym as a blue belt, you know, and and you get some of that sort of stuff going on. Um, the guys they don't know any different, you know, and so that and the thing that sucks is often times, you know, some of the gyms you you walk in and they do it and they don't have a good experience, and they never return to Jiu-Jitsu again. Where maybe if they had some proper guidance, a decent gym, um, they could have had a better experience, you know, not saying they wouldn't quit eventually. Jiu-Jitsu in general is a very high turnover sport. It's very tough. It's one of those things that I think a lot of people want to do, and then once they do it, they're like, oh, shoot. Like, you know, this is there's that initial honeymoon phase where it's you suck, but it's cool, and it's hard, and you're doing the thing, but then the honeymoon phase wears off, and now you're just like, oh, man. Wow, this is tough. I don't know if this is for me. So it's always got a high turnover rate, don't get me wrong. Um, that's just how it goes, no matter how great the gym is or how great the coach is. But, you know, I think now more than ever, you see a lot of kind of unqualified people running gyms. Um, and it's just it's it just is what it is, right? And it's just something you have to deal with. So, that's where it is so important to understand how to market it well. Um, you know, I know guys that are world-class, uh, and that are truly world-class, and their gyms aren't doing that well. And I've seen guys that are really borderline scam artists that that don't know what they're doing Jiu-Jitsu-wise. Um, you know, they're in it for all the wrong reasons. And I've seen them have gyms full of people. And so, you got to try to check all the boxes now. It's not it's not what it used to be where you could be the only game in town, or you could be the only guy with one other competitor, you know. So, yeah, you want to make sure you have the best practices across the board for sure. Speaker 1: Yeah, what what you're talking about here is a very interesting topic because I think that for for a long time, and continuously, I think a lot of people tend to think that, okay, if I'm going to open a school and have success, I need to be, you know, a world decorated world champion. I've got to be have a lineage that like really is impressive and all that. What you're saying is so true that yes, it's impressive to people who are in the know. But but for people who are brand new to Jiu-Jitsu coming in the first time, they don't know it's like for them it's like Taekwondo. It's just another type of type of martial arts that they want to try to explore. They don't know anyone at all and your lineage really to to most of them, like you said, means nothing. Now, that can be frustrating for people who who are decorated and who do have strong lineages that are impressive. It can also be good for people who maybe come from a lesser known lineage but are legit black belts. They say, you know, I think a lot of people sometimes think like, oh, well, you know, I haven't really done anything competitively, but I do I'm very passionate teacher and I've dedicated to my life to learning Jiu-Jitsu and I want to share the art with people and I want to do that full-time. But man, I'm not sure if I really have the confidence to open my own school because I'm not a world champion. I'm not like, you know, the student a black belt under a world renowned black belt myself. This is also a good signal a good symbol signal for them too. For people out there that might be a little on the fence of whether or not they're good enough to teach because at the end of the day, if if you have a strong good program, uh and a good culture inside the gym, and you're teaching legitimate Jiu-Jitsu, you can you can attract a lot of students. But I do hear what you're saying though that if you do come from a strong impressive lineage and you do have the credentials, you can get mixed up into the into the crowd a little bit, and that can be pretty frustrating. Have have you found anything anything that seems to be a remedy for that? Is there anything that you're doing that kind of separates you from from the herd? Speaker 2: Well, you know, before that, I do want to touch on this. Like, this is like anything else, there's context, there's nuance. You do not need to be some decorated champion to produce good talent. That is absolutely for the furthest thing from the truth. In fact, a lot of the guys that that are great at doing are not good at teaching. I can't tell you how many times I've attended a seminar from like an amazing guy who just phenomenal. But their ability to put that knowledge into you is very poor, you know, and it is a different skill set. Teaching versus doing, right? Two two different skill sets entirely. Um, and then even within that, competition is not everything, you know, like some of my best I was a competitor, my coach was a competitor. We definitely had some I wouldn't even say we were a competition focused gym. We had a lot of guys that we're still the minority, but some of my best training partners that were the best guys that pushed me the most, um, and that I adored the most as training partners, they didn't like never competed. But they trained like they did. They were just dogs, you know, and and they're good. But going back to that, it's like, it is a separate skill set. And it doesn't mean you have to come from some name or something like that. In fact, my favorite Jiu-Jitsu fighter of all times is Rodolfo Vieira. And Rodolfo, you know, he came from the the Fada lineage, which is like a non-Gracie lineage. Like, you know, before before Rodolfo got on the scene, a lot of people had no idea about that lineage or that it existed at all. And now you look at GF Team and holy crap, dude, they've got they're a powerhouse. You know, and I and I love their game their style. Um, and so, it's not about that. It's it's just about putting in the work, putting in the time, you know, and and there's once again, context and nuance. Like, I know a guy who opened up his gym as a blue belt, but he was living in the middle of nowhere, Oklahoma. You know, he didn't have anyone. He was driving two hours to come train with us at Lovato's, do private lessons, learn, learn, learn, bring it back to his guys. Right? And and so, that's what you had to do. But, I'm in a big city, you know, or biggish city, and there's a lot of big city. It's like, what irks me, I guess, to see is just the guys that don't put in the time. They don't put in the process. They're just like, oh, I'm going to open up a gym because I want to make money. You you people think it's easier than it is to have a gym full of people, full of training. It's all it's a lot of hard work. But you're like, oh, I'm a blue belt. I'm just going to open up my gym. And there's a sea of black belts around you. But you didn't put in the time to even get your black belt before you opened up your gym. And that to me, that shows the potential for doing things for the wrong reasons, right? And it's like, and and you're not going to say on your website, hey, guys, I'm a shitty blue belt, and I'm opened up this gym. You're going to say, world-class Jiu-Jitsu, right? And so, that's that's the sort of thing, you know, I don't want to to to make people feel weird or or, you know, I'm not pooh-poohing on on guys that open up their gym under the right circumstances. But I'm seeing a lot nowadays of people just just not putting in the dedication, not putting in the time to get the knowledge before they open up their gym. Um, and to me, that's just it's a it's just a red flag for me. But once again, the uneducated new person does not know what this person's background is or what's going on. Um, nor if they saw it would would it even make sense anyways, you know, because once again, you don't know what you don't know yet. And so you start having these battles of, yeah, competing on price, just going to the first gym that's closest to your house, even though it might not be a great fit. And so you have to find a way to stand out, and and it is tough. It it's really tough. Uh, and so for me, it's all about just getting people in the door. Man, like, for my my gym, I can't tell you how many times I've had someone come in, try out class, like, yeah, okay, cool. Well, I'm going to check out a few gyms, which you should. Like, that's that's good. Um, it's just most people don't. They're they're either going to sign up at the first place they they tried, or they're just, oh, I tried it, not for me, and they're done, right? So, but um, I've had a million times though where I've had people they try out some other gyms, and then they come back. And they're like, okay, I see I see now what's up. Yeah, so you just kind of have to get people in the door. It's hard to it's hard to do it any other way because everybody is saying the same stuff, and their gym looks the same from the outside looking in, you know, and so, you just got to you just got to get them in the door and and show them show them the way, show them the light, you know. Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I mean, that's the best you can that's that's all you can really do. And I think that people over time realize like, you know, if if they start somewhere where where the instructor has not put in his dues and and and maybe it's just less prepared to be a full-time instructor, that as as time progresses, I think people start to to realize, you know, especially if they start dropping into other schools, cross-training a little bit. I remember one of my old instructors, Jacare Calvancchi from Alliance, used to always say, uh in a room full of blind people, the one-eyed man is king. You know, and it's and it's true. I mean, there there are guys that can have a little bit of knowledge and open up a school and have some success, but I I think eventually, you know, as your students start to adapt and learn and and, you know, educate themselves more about the art in general, they might realize like, yeah, over there, those guys seem to have a little more structure or there seems to be a little bit more um, you know, especially if they start competing, they might realize, man, these other teams are wiping us with, you know, they're just completely killing us. Like, what's going on? And I, you know, so I I think eventually, I think eventually an inferior product gets gets realized, even even if even if at first the people, you know, don't don't don't understand it yet completely themselves. Speaker 2: Yeah, I just I feel bad, you know, it just makes me feel bad for for a lot of these guys. I've had numerous times where guys come in and whatever belt they're at, our guys, the belt below that, who are just like average for their belt, are just destroying them. And and it's sad and I saw it at Lovato's as well, you know, coming up the ranks, we get guys that would come in and visit and just what if they're a purple belt, our really average blue belts would be just killing them. And it's just sad because you could see in that moment that these guys are like, oh my gosh, I just wasted so much time just to go to that gym and save, you know, 30 bucks a month because they're cheaper, and now they're realizing that was not that was not worth it, you know, and and what's cool is I've seen guys over the years, they like, they join the team because they they saw they're like, man, this is where I need to be. Clearly, I'm not getting what I should. But then the downside is that is even more guys than not I'd see they would just quit altogether. They they join the team for a short time, and then they just quit because their ego couldn't handle getting wiped every night by by the lower belts, you know, and so, the giving belts is, you know, you shouldn't sandbag people or hold them back for too long, but belts are given away like candy now. I mean, just and it's just a retention tool. I think it's out of fear that the student might quit. And so a lot of coaches are just giving belts away, giving belts away. And and then that guy, you know, who you just gave a belt away to, he goes and visits a gym and realizes that he's not really deserving of that belt. And that's just that's sucks for that guy, you know, and now he doesn't want to train with anybody anymore and get exposed anymore. And that's just a terrible feeling to have, you know, I want any of my students to be able to know anywhere I go in the world, I'm going to represent my level well, and I have nothing to be ashamed of. I don't have to be worried about training and getting exposed. Um, and you just you just don't have that that anxiety and that fear, and it's, you know, just just helps you things it just helps you feel more free. Um, and you want to know you earned what you have at the end of the day, and and and be able to like really be proud of that and hey, hold your head high on that, and not be like, oh, crap. I'm in this belt. I can't go. That that's just just a terrible feeling, you know. Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I think what hurts the most is what you mentioned earlier is when you see people choosing a school that they just don't understand is not is not the best product around, and uh and then as as as a as a result of that, leaving and just being like, yeah, I guess Jiu-Jitsu's just not really I'm not really into Jiu-Jitsu, I guess. And it sucks because that's got they'd gone into the right school, that might have been a completely different experience. And we were talking about at the beginning of the conversation how how much it's good the sport's grown, how many schools there are now in any given city compared to how it was even, you know, six years ago. Um, it it sucks to see those people have a bad experience and leave when they could have been lifers in Jiu-Jitsu. They could have they could have grown the art and competed or at least, you know, been lifelong practitioners that pass it on to their kids, and we see the industry continue to grow and more and more. So, it's uh yeah, it's it's it's it's it's it's it's important to um, yeah, to have the best product that you can to prevent that from happening. So we want this art to grow and be as expansive as it possibly can be. Um, Dallas, I know that one thing that a lot of instructors go through, especially when they're the owner of the school, is they experience the difficulty of managing injuries while also having to be present for every class and teach every class. Uh you especially for young schools, like schools that are just uh just just getting off their feet, just going just getting going, you don't always have a an army of assistant instructors. And so you're kind of expected to be there for every class. I know that right now you're going through a neck thing, uh like a like a you've got some some discs, is it disc issues in your neck that you're dealing with right now? Speaker 2: I've not trained less in my life than over these last two years. Like, you know, I used to train, man, I mean, at least five days a week, you know, back when I was competing a lot. Um, my early like first 10 years of Jiu-Jitsu, you know, whatever that was, first 12 years, I mean, it wasn't uncommon to train six days a week sometimes, you know, or or doing five days a week but doing two a days. And so just lots and lots of training. Um, and yeah, now you're right, it's tough, you know, whenever you're teaching the majority of the classes. I think outside of my kids classes, I teach every single class other except for like one class right now. And we're we're six days a week open. Um, and so, yeah, there's always something I mean, just exhaustion too. Like, your mental bandwidth, you you taught everybody, done everything, and now it's your turn to train, you're just like, I just need to rest right now. Um, just fighting through that can be tough at times, but then, you know, of course, we're just getting older. Like, you know, you're not as resilient as you were. And I think now I'm just at that point, I just turned 41 uh last month. And, you know, my body has been pretty resilient over the years. Uh, you know, of course, I had injuries, but I was always training, and nothing that kept me off the mats for more than like a few months at a time. Um, and now it's just, you know, it's just age catching up with you. I I've had this neck thing we were talking about. I've got spinal stenosis in four levels of my neck. Three levels is severe spinal stenosis, one is moderate, and then all all four of those have bulging discs. Um, and so, they want to do a neck fusion. Now, this is something I've been dealing with for like years now. But with each passing year, it's just getting worse. So my arms are going numb a lot now, and um, I have to sleep on my side with like a very specific angle to my neck. Too much this way or too much this way, I'm waking up with my arms being numb. I have to like stick my arm in my underwear to like hold it still because if it drifts off, uh, I start waking up. So it's just it's gotten to where like I can't even get a good night's sleep. So, you know, I've been finally, uh, got my MRI. I knew it was bad for a long time. I also didn't have health insurance for a long time. Um, and so, anyways, I got an MRI finally, and it's like, oh, it's really bad. Uh, the doctors here want to fuse four levels of my neck. I don't want a fusion. Uh, I'm trying to avoid a fusion at all costs. So, I'm in talks with some surgeons in Germany that will do disc replacement for that many levels. Like here in the states, uh, the FDA won't approve um, disc replacement for more than two discs that are like like touching, uh, or like next to each other. And I need four. So, I've got to go elsewhere to make that happen. Um, but yeah, this is just also I'm a half guard player. And you got to think, you know, I spent almost 20 years playing half guard against one of the world's best pressure passers. So, as you can imagine, I've eaten a lot of cross faces over the years. And, uh, you know, and so, I think it's just taking its toll, you know, 20 years of that, plus I did some some DNA testing, some genetic testing, and I saw in that that I was predisposed to um, some soft tissue injuries and stuff like that. And so, who knows, man, maybe part of that's genetic, and then you mix that with, you know, that many years of, once again, getting cross-faced from half guard like every day. Um, which it made my half guard really, really good, you know, in fact, uh, BJJ Fanatics, everyone knows Bernardo. Like, Rafael, he fought Bernardo, I think, more than anybody else in his career. I think they fought like eight or nine times. And so, I was constantly training with Rafael to get him ready for Bernardo. And we were always like, he was always figuring out how to counter my half guard. I was figuring out the counters to his counters. And so, so goes the game, right? And so, you know, I wouldn't take it back for anything. Um, it it gave my half guard a lot of insight that um, I I believe I have details that just your average guy would not have from feeling the different looks and and, you know, just playing that game with such a high-level guy. Um, you know, it's amazing, but for sure, it took a lot of damage along the way. And I wasn't the black belt version of myself all those years. Like, there's those years I was just the blue belt version getting the shit kicked out of me, you know, so, you know, it is what it is. Um, but, uh, you know, I'm I'm hoping I can get it taken care of this year and get back to hard training. You know, I've got my guys that are competitive, and I love training with my guys. And I've done so little of it over this past year due to my neck, due to being sick, uh, you know, I got sick last year, and that left me with like this crazy chronic fatigue for like eight months. And so it was just like one thing after another, and and it sucks sitting there and watching my guys roll. And it's great because I get to coach and tell them what I'm seeing. But on the other side, it's, you know, it's just not what I'm used to. I'm used to training with my guys, pushing my guys. I love I love training. And so, it's been a it's been a weird year, you know, or past year with all that stuff. Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. Well, man, this really hits home with me right now because I was telling you off air, I've just now coming back from like a nine to nine or 10-month layoff, uh due to my neck as well. I've I've had uh a couple herniated discs. Thankfully, I didn't need any surgery or anything, but it was to the point where if I turned my neck like to the left, my whole right arm would just go numb, you know, like I I just feel like pins and needles and, you know, the whole thing. And so, uh I had to take time off from that, and, you know, I I I it's really made me analyze my game now. Like as I'm coming back, I I there wasn't one incident that caused this for me. I think it was just, you know, nearly almost 20 years of Jiu-Jitsu for me now that's kind of caused uh a chronic thing. But, um, it's made me analyze, okay, I probably shouldn't be inverting my guard so much anymore, which is a big part of my game. Uh, and it's funny. I I was really thinking, man, what's the safest place for me to be if I'm on the bottom? It's probably half guard. But then you just mentioned that half guard might have been what what what was the nail on the coffin for you. Yeah, it kind of depends, right? So, I mean, what are your thoughts on that? What do you what do you think would be the safest place for me to come back and play if if I have a uh a sensitive neck? Speaker 2: You know, I mean, don't get me wrong, half guard, you know, of course, if I slip up, I can take some punishment, but now my half guard's at a at a high enough level where you know how to protect your head, right? And so, if you're in like, let's say, coyote guard, for instance, you know, you your head should be in their belly where the cross face is not accessible. If your head is shoulder level, shoulder line level, you're going to get you're going to get like tons of cross face pressure. And the scary thing too is like, in a way, you get used to it. As a half guard player, you know, what's funny is when I'm passing and I put a lot of pressure on a guy that wants to play a more distance-based game, someone playing De La Hiva, spider, anything. And you start to put a lot of pressure, you can feel those guys just fall apart. You can feel them break. Um, because their game is based around keeping the distance. So when you do manage to break through, you can usually feel that they have a tendency to to not handle the pressure as well. Where a good half guard player, you can be cross-facing the crap out of him, and it's just another day in the office. It like doesn't bother you anymore. Your body becomes like conditioned to it. And so I think a lot of this like, over the years, my body was conditioned. It didn't hurt me in the moment. It it didn't feel anything in the moment. I was fine. Um, and I could fight through it, but the long-term effects, you know, those are what come back to bite you. And so, you just have to really be sharp with your half guard, you know, making sure you're getting the underhook, making sure you're hiding your head where you should be, you're protecting your head. Um, and if you're not, yeah, you you could take some punishment. And I don't want to scare people and be like, oh, if you play half guard, you're all going to end up like me. Once again, it's could be genetics on top of just who I was training with and for how long I was training and how hard I was on my body, you know. Um, but, yeah, in general, though, you know, even now, I play a lot of like if I was to go compete tomorrow, I'm for sure playing half guard. Like, that's my A game. That's what I revert to. It's just like in my DNA, right? Um, even if I tell myself, I'm going to play this or play that, as soon as like the adrenaline hits and and you're everything's going fast, dude, I'm going to half guard. That's where the world slows down for me. But in my gym, with my guys, I mean, I'm always working other aspects of my game. And I'm playing a lot of closed guard, a lot of De La Hiva, things where I'm managing the distance and not letting them in, you know. The way I see it is, you know, you've got levels, you know, closed guard is its own world. It it's closed guard is just closed guard, right? And then it opens up. From there, now, I use my feet, and I can keep you with De La Hivas, keeping feet on your thighs or biceps, whatever it is, you know, I'm keeping you at like my feet level. If you get past my feet, I want you running into my knee and into like my knee shield, right? I want you in my knees where I can either recover back to my feet, or I can attack from there. There are sweeps you can do from your shield, like Shaolin sweeps and and games like that. Um, and then if you get past my knees, I just want to know that I've got the underhook on you. I've got everything I'm going to play half guard, D-path. Um, you know, so you've got levels. And so, you know, you just want to stay at that level where you're maintaining the distance, playing that closed guard, playing those long-range games, you know. Um, and what I do like about it though too is having my half guard being my A game, what helps now is like, I joke that my Jiu-Jitsu's like an onion, right? It's like, like there's just like there's just layers and layers and layers, and then each one is going to make you cry. Like, you know, just like cutting into an onion. And by the time you get to at at your deepest, you get past you get the closed guard open. Okay, that's fine. That the open guard's there. You get past the open guard, the knee shield's in, you know. Um, you get past the knee shield, now you're actually in my best guard. And so, the further you progress, the worse it should get for that person, which I think is really nice to have. Where if you're a long distance guy, typically, if you get past there, your your half guard's not good, you know, and so, that's why I know myself, Lovato, a lot of guys, when they're passing, they want to force the half guard on their opponent, especially if you know they're not a good half guard player. Because if you can force the half guard on on a good De La Hiva guy, your chances of mounting him comes much stronger. Get to the half guard, you're going to get to the mount, you're going to finish the game. You know, and so, it's just about being good at maintaining the distance, you know. But then within that, a lot of good distance players will invert also, just depending on what the scenario calls for. I invert, even though I'm a bigger guy, um, I'll use inversions, but I use them far more seldom. I don't just spam them or make my game based around them. But there are scenarios defensively where if you get beat, you need to have that in the bag. And so that's why I tell my guys, I'm like, hey, you don't have to base your game around this, but it's a good skill to have. Um, it will there will be times where it's like, this is what you have to do. Uh, or you just have to accept, all right, give up the pass, have good defense, get back to my guard, you know, and so, it is what it is. Jiu-Jitsu's hard on the body, you know. If you do it long enough, we're all going to have something. It may not be someone's neck, it might be their shoulder, it might be their knee, hip, whatever. It just is what it is, but I wouldn't take it away for anything, you know, people get hurt every day doing stuff like stepping off the curb wrong, you know. You're going to get hurt in life. I'd rather get hurt doing something cool. Is that what I like? Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. I I love what you said there about the layers of your game and kind of engineering your game in a way so that the layers get progressively more dangerous as someone starts peeling them back, rather than because usually what you see is you see it the other way around. You usually see that you got your your your place that you start from. And as people start peeling back layers, you have like secondary and and you have backup uh games, basically, that kind of that kind of uh replace your primary game. I I like what you what you were saying there about how you try to think of it as you give them um, not necessarily your A game up front, and the more they start peeling things back and getting past things, the closer they're getting to your A game, which gets harder and harder. That's a very interesting way to to design a game. I I really like that. Um, yeah, you know, there's also we were talking about, you know, guards and, you know, how half guard is now something I'm I'm thinking of really dedicating myself to. Um, I've I've always been told over the years that anyone that's broken or older or slower or injured or whatever, half guard's a really good place to be. And it's I I do play a lot of like shin shield, Z guard type stuff in my game. Um, so I'm kind of halfway there. Um, but I I I really think I do need to just dedicate to the half guard once and for all and really spend the time there because it seems like it seems like it's going to be safer for me than inverting my guard and things like that. So, Speaker 2: I mean, you're you're right. Like, half guard is awesome because it it ages really well, right? And and the other thing too that I think goes uh unspoken sometimes is like, half guard, you can play ghee and no-gi. It's not like really grip dependent. Where a lot of guys in the ghee, they're going to have their A game that's very grip heavy. You got to have this sleeve grip, this collar grip, whatever it might be. And then no-gi, it's all it changes, right? You've got to have a good butterfly, a good half, a good X, single leg X, something along those lines, you know. And so for me, I always just liked playing guards that I could throw in seamlessly. Like, back when I was a blue belt, I placed at the no-gi worlds doing no wrestling and doing no no-gi. I actually used to hate no-gi. I like it now. Uh, but and it wasn't because I was like so good. It was just because my A game was still very good. Like, it it was still very relevant, sorry. Um, it was super relevant for no-gi, and I didn't have to make a bunch of adjustments. I was really comfortable. And so I was just getting into my half guard with all the guys and sweeping them and and then I'd yeah, I ran into a really good wrestler that I had a hard time sweeping. We just kind of negated each other, and he ended up winning, and yeah, it is what it is. So, but that was all because half guard was my game, you know, that was just a luck thing early on, but that's something I like, you know, that's a lot of bang for your buck where you can have a game that is very transferable. Um, it's hard enough getting world-class at any one game, you know, let alone now you've got to have multiple games, you know. Um, so for your average person, really putting in the hours to build a game that you can do ghee, do no-gi, because I'm a big I'm a big fan of both, you know, right now, we're in this wave of like, ghee versus no-gi, you know, guys that want to only do one, only do the other, which is cool. Like, it's there's nothing wrong with having a preference, right? Like, we're all going to have a preference. Um, but I am one of those guys that does think that if you're a no-gi guy, putting the ghee on will make your no-gi better. And vice versa. You get you get ghee guys that are super lazy. They don't want to get into the scrambling and the speed of no-gi. Um, and for sure, in no-gi, you can use your athleticism more. You can slip out of things, limp arm out, rip you out, rip out of stuff because you're sweaty, and you're constantly chasing and chasing. Um, but there's aspects of doing no-gi for a while that will make your ghee game much better. And so, I like having the freedom to do both and not having to overthink too much. Um, you know, and and having guard games that are congruent, um, and that help you with both. So I'm just I'm just a big fan of that. Speaker 1: That's great, man. Yeah, Dallas, there's something you and I were talking about off air recently. You were talking about how the more experience you get in Jiu-Jitsu, the more simple simplified your game seems to become. Would you mind expanding on that for us? Tell like where has where has that been most obvious in your game, do you think? Speaker 2: Yeah, for for sure. And I I don't think this is a a phenomenon just to me. I think this is pretty typical, but, you know, what's crazy is I used to have so many weapons uh to my game that I relied on to get the submission or whatever. And nowadays, there's things that like like they were my A game. It was like what I was looking for to to submit most people that I doesn't even cross my mind now whenever I'm I'm playing. You know, where there's still stuff that was my A game then, that's my A game now. Like half guard, you know, I started playing half guard as a white belt, and I started doing crucifix as a white belt. And those are the two things I'm most known for is my crucifix and my half guard games. Um, and pressure passing, which is just like a Lovato, you know, Heberro, Shanji, Solo thing. So, all of our guys are very pressure heavy. But, um, you know, I just the path can really open up and get much simpler the more skilled you get, you know, I I used to not want to mount people ever. And because I felt susceptible to getting rolled over. So, I'm staying in side control or trying to get them to turn so I can have their back, which I think is extremely common. Like, I I mounts is one of the first positions you learn, and for a lot of people, a lot of people never feel comfortable in the mount, I think, even at at black belt. They they still want to get to the guy's back or stay in side control because they feel that they're going to get rolled over or expose their base. Um, and so, you know, the game, what I was referring to there is like, you know, for me now, a lot of my game is just mounting the guy and X-choking him or doing an arm bar. Like the two two of the first things that you learn in Jiu-Jitsu, but for a lot of people, you start to attack it you those are like the two last attacks you like really feel confident in, right? And so, some people have to do crazy stuff to trick somebody, and they're setting traps, but they've got to do a crazy inversion here or do this there or set up this thing here. And there's nothing wrong with that too. Part of the fun of Jiu-Jitsu is the freedom of Jiu-Jitsu. You can make a game that looks like whatever you want it to look like. And, um, for me too, I definitely did that. I modeled my game after fighters. I was like, hey, I love the aesthetics of that person's game. You know, what looks cool to me is not what's going to look cool to somebody else, right? And and so, I'm not trying to crap on that either. Like that's awesome. Like, I used to do some pretty flashy stuff uh all the time, but it was just because I to me it was cool. To someone else, they may not think that. But, as time grows and goes on and on, you just you get better. Like, you know, you get better at pinning. You get better at knowing where to adjust your weight. So you're not going to get rolled. Some of the things that were bothering you before are no longer bothering you. So you can stay a lot more just simple, really. I mean, it's just as simple as that. You can be much more simple in your approach. There's no need to need to make that secondary transition, that transition after that, that transition after that. Because you're just dominating so much harder than you were from a control uh point of view. And so, um, yeah, my game now is a lot of still guard. I love playing guard, even though I'm a a bigger guy, I like guard. Uh, I didn't grow up wrestling. And I do like wrestling, I like judo, I like wrestling. I'll fight for the takedown, but I didn't start fighting for the takedown until I was like a black belt. Like, I shit you not. Like, I I don't think I got my first takedown in competition until I was a black belt because I didn't care. If the guy was going to pull guard, great. He's going to pull guard. I'm going to work to pass. If he's going to sit and have a fight with me, then I'm going to pull guard and just get to work. Um, you know, into my A games. And so, um, the game will will will transition, but for the longest time, yeah, I mean, I wasn't fighting for takedowns. I was getting into my A game. Um, and then looking to get to my crucifix or whatever it is. And I still do a lot of crucifix, don't get me wrong. Um, but I even stopped doing crucifix for a long time just to to work other areas of my game. Um, but going back to that, now it's just like, I'm going to find a way to get on top. I'm going to mount. I'm going to hit an X-choke or an arm bar. And I mean, you'd be shocked at maybe you wouldn't be shocked, but the amount of like black belts I come across that are like not capable of that is is just it's it's common, you know, I'm not going to say it's crazy or anything, but it's common. And so, um, yeah, you you just you get better. I think the game slows down for you. And you can do very simple stuff because once again, I think it's as easy as not needing to transition as much, you know, you're just, yep, I got you in mount. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to turn. You're going to be able to do this. And now you're cooked. Speaker 1: Dallas, I'll tell you what, man. We've reached about the halfway point of the show here. This is where I always play a game with my guest. Uh this is a game called The Pummel. The Pummel is a series of questions. Some of these have to do with Jiu-Jitsu, some of them have nothing to do with Jiu-Jitsu. You've actually played this before last time you were on. Uh but if you're down to play again, I'd love to play this game with you. Speaker 2: All right. Speaker 1: All right, man. Let's go. Can't scare me. Speaker 2: Let's go. Can't scare me. Speaker 1: Let's do it, man. By the way, guys, this week the Pummel game is brought to you by BJJ Fanatics Gear.com, the best resource for BJJ gear online. The internet's full of cheaply made rash guards and tacky designs. BJJ Fanatics Gear.com offers the best materials available and refined designs for everybody. They've also got gis and shorts and shirts and anything else you may need. So check them out at BJJ Fanatics Gear.com. Uh question one, what is the largest animal that you think you could beat in hand-to-hand combat? Speaker 2: Oh my God. The largest animal hand-to-hand. I'm scared. I mean, dude, uh, I want to say like a a chimpanzee, but we all know they're going to rip your face off. And uh, a smaller monkey than a chimpanzee. Speaker 1: Like a spider monkey or something. Yeah. Speaker 2: Animals are scary. Yeah. Animals are scary. They're too unpredictable. Speaker 1: This game's also a really good dive like a really good glimpse into the minds of people and how well they understand the animal kingdom. This that's that's another reason I like this question because it lets me know what like Speaker 2: It's like a Rorschach test. Speaker 1: It's a Rorschach it's it's exactly it. It's a yeah, exactly, exactly. It lets me know how realistic how realistic you uh you think. Uh if you could have a genie lamp and you could make three wishes, uh normal genie rules apply, no killing people, no wishing for more wishes. What three things would you wish for? Speaker 2: Oh my God. Uh, let's see. I mean, we we have to wish for endless wealth. I mean, it'd just be foolish not to. Speaker 1: Yeah, of course. That's it'd be yeah, absolutely. Speaker 2: Um, yeah. So, I'm not going to I'm not going to say that that's not on the table. Uh, you know, uh, I would say, yeah, that, um, did as as absolutely cliche as this sounds, like, for sure, we're going world peace on that puppy. Like, with I can't I can't pick up my phone nowadays without seeing, you know, in our social media era, you get to see everything going on and, oh my God, like, the world's a mess. I try not to be a doomer. I try to stay very positive, but, um, the state of things across the world is not not chill. And so, for sure, man, I would love to to just not see that in life anymore. And and so, we're doing that. All right? I know that's super cliche. It sounds like I'm trying to win like a a Miss America pageant. Speaker 1: No, but man, if you could if you could do it with a press of a button, I mean, why would you not? That that would be that would be that would be crazy to not ask for world peace for sure. Yeah. Speaker 2: Yeah. And uh, man, I think, you know, just uh, the same thing, the the like freedom of not having to worry about money, not having to to to deal with any of that stuff for like my family, my friends, we're doing that for them too because I think of my dad in this scenario. I'm like, yeah, he's retired. I'm like, man, if he could just like not have to worry about any of that stuff, then I'm taking care of that as well. So, Speaker 1: That's great. That's awesome. Well, I really like that. Well, thank you. Thank you again for for doing that. And yeah, for anyone out there that wants to check it out, check it out. Again, it's called The Unstoppable Mount. And for the time being, it's free on BJJ Fanatics.com. So go grab it. Um, you're saying that you were terrible, you feel like you're terrible at social media, man, but your new Instagram's pretty fire. What made you decide to start uh putting out more technique videos on a on a regular basis and really kind of dial in your social media and your Instagram? Speaker 2: Um, man, that was just it. I just realizing, you know, I would like to expose more people to my teaching. Um, you know, I just love teaching. It's I feel to me, I feel like it's my calling, right? And and same thing as cliche as as that might sound. Um, you know, I was a decent competitor in my time, but I feel like I'm a I'm a teaching is is my it's just my thing, you know. And so, uh, I just love I love I love getting to share my Jiu-Jitsu with people, whether that be through my students and my classes, teaching seminars, or having, man, I can't tell you. I've gotten random messages to like from people in Poland or whatever. They're like, man, I got your your half guard, and it helped me with this thing. And like, there's just when you see that, there's nothing better than that, uh, for me. And so, I just want to expose more people to my teaching, um, and hopefully it resonates, you know. Sometimes you have two guys teaching you the same thing, but the way one person says it, it just clicks, you know. And hopefully for some people, I my teaching is what does that, and then for a lot of people, it'll be somebody else, you know. But I want to get my my stuff out there to as many people as I can. Um, and just share, you know, for me, I started teaching so early. I started teaching as a blue belt at Lovato's, teaching fundamentals classes. We had a curriculum, and so I'd share the curriculum. And then, of course, that grew into me teaching advanced classes later on. And, um, to me, I feel like the power, and I might have said this in the last interview, I can't remember, but one of my superpowers, so to speak, is my teaching. It was starting so early and not being so far removed from having those problems that I could remember it like it was yesterday. I was like, oh, man, when I was a blue belt, I figured this out, and this really stuck with me. And I think some guys don't even start teaching till they're already black belts. If they do teach or an upper belt. And sometimes you're so far removed from when you were struggling that you may not remember that thing. It may not stick with you as much. And for me, I think that was just a real big blessing of teaching so early is even to this day, 20 years later, I can remember, oh, hey, this one thing totally changed right here. And so, I just try to get that out as as much as I can to everybody that I get to teach. Speaker 1: That's outstanding. I love it, man. Well, yeah, guys, if uh if you're not following him on Instagram already, the new channel we're talking about is Dallas Niles_BJJ. Uh so make sure you guys are following him on Instagram. Uh Dallas, in closing, what are some of your major goals for 2026? What are some things that you uh that you hope to accomplish this year? Speaker 2: Man, my main things, 2026, obviously, keep growing my academy. Um, I have such great students, and, of course, I just want to keep keep with that. Keep growing it. Have a healthy, amazing gym, uh here in Tulsa. And then, outside of that, getting my neck fixed is high on the list. Um, hopefully get that neck, uh, get those disc replacements. Get back to training heavy with my guys. Um, and then, I used to have a ghee company back when I was a blue belt. Sunny a little bit about this before. Um, and I stopped doing it. We were starting to get some traction, but I had some partners, and they just didn't love doing it the way I did. And it was one of those things back then that I was in no way could I keep doing that by myself. Uh, it was just impossible. I was just a poor blue belt, no money, you know, just living at home with his dad at past an age where you should be doing that just to be able to travel the world and compete and and and uh, you know, continue my Jiu-Jitsu passion of of being a a top competitor. And so, uh, that had to go to the wayside, and I am now finally starting to put the pieces back together, um, for my new company. Um, and it's not going to be your average Jiu-Jitsu apparel company. Um, we've got some really special things in the works. I can't give it away. Um, I can't make the world sign an NDA right now. But, uh, I can't give everything away, but we're we've got some really next-level crazy stuff in the works that doesn't exist yet. And, uh, I'm just really excited about it. And so, yeah, getting getting my health, you know, where I needed to be with my neck, getting my, uh, this company, uh, we're I'm working with a guy in London right now, putting some things together. And, uh, as always, just helping level up my guys, uh, here in Tulsa. Just keep them growing on the path, introduce more people to Jiu-Jitsu. And, uh, yeah, man, that's going to be it's going to be what this year is all about. Speaker 1: Well, folks, unfortunately, we're fresh out of time. Dallas, always a pleasure chopping it up with you, man. I appreciate you taking the time to be here. Uh you always have great topics to bring to the table. It's always really appreciated. And I wish you the best of luck with everything this year from your neck, to the school, to to just everything you have going on, and you're always welcome back on the show whenever you want to come back. Speaker 2: Appreciate it, my man. I love talking to you and yeah, my pleasure. Happy to be here. Speaker 1: Likewise, man. I really enjoy it. And I will be checking out. I took thorough notes of all the bands you recommended this time. So far, you have not missed with any of the bands you've recommended to me. I've liked them all. So, I will check these out tonight. Uh for anyone out there that wants to keep up with Dallas, it's real easy to do so. He's active on Facebook. Uh you can find him there, Dallas Niles Method BJJ. Uh he's also got an Instagram that we discussed, uh Dallas Niles_BJJ. Make sure you're uh following that. His YouTube channel, he's just ramping it back up again now. Uh it's Dallas Niles BJJ. Make sure you guys subscribe and hit the little bell icon to get notified when he adds new content. If you guys are ever traveling through Tulsa, Oklahoma, uh man, make sure you drop in and get some uh get some training. It's Method Method JJ Tulsa.com is the website for his school. Phenomenal training center. Uh he's got obviously lots of experience as a teacher, and he comes from a great lineage. So, drop in and get some training. Uh if you can't drop into his school in Oklahoma, you can learn from Dallas anywhere in the world here at BJJ Fanatics.com. You've got no excuse to not check out his most recent instructional because as he said, for right now, it's free. Uh it's called The Unstoppable Mount, and you can get it right now at BJJ Fanatics.com without spending a dime. If you like it, check out his other instructionals. He's got a great uh crucifix instructional and a half guard instructional that I highly recommend. Uh so head over to BJJ Fanatics.com and check all those out. And that's going to do it for this episode, everybody. I really appreciate you tuning in. Please stay tuned for the next episode of the BJJ Fanatics Podcast.