Dark Matter Explained, Black Holes are Scarier Than You Think, Secrets of Galaxy Formation | Ep. 159

Speaker 1: You're listening to the Simple Man with Ethan Krell and Stan Nikki Rod and Damian Anderson. Stay a while if you know about the Jiu-Jitsu. If you don't, you can come too. This is T.T. What's up, guys? Welcome back to another episode of The Simple Man Podcast. I'm Damian. Speaker 2: I'm Ethan. Speaker 3: I'm Nikki Rod, and we have a special guest today, an astrophysicist. Speaker 2: That's correct. Speaker 3: All right. Speaker 1: So, uh, Mike, what's your last name? Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm Mike Boyle and I'm a professor at UT Austin. Speaker 3: Oh, yeah. Speaker 1: He is a theoretical astrophysicist who works on galaxy formation theory and its interface with cosmology. He works on a variety of questions related to dark matter, cosmological structure formation, and the galaxy formation physics across cosmic time. His work combines numerical simulation to analytic models and observations. And I got that right from the head. Speaker 3: Not Wikipedia. Speaker 1: Not at University of Texas, uh, experts page. You know, I, I knew that for sure. Speaker 3: Uh, what made you dive into this field? Speaker 4: Well, I think when I was a kid, I started reading some books on this, and it was one of the things that really interested me because some of the biggest things in the universe are set by some of the smallest processes in the universe, and I sort of never could get that out of my head. Like there are stars that are set by the interactions of atoms, like on the smallest scale. So everything, the biggest and the smallest, it all kind of mixed together, and that hooked me and never let me go. It's a Speaker 3: Wow. Speaker 2: So, what's your star sign? Speaker 1: Oh my God. Yeah, astrology expert. Speaker 2: Aquarius. Speaker 1: Aquarius. You couldn't tell? Speaker 2: No, obviously. He's just so Aquarius. It's such an Aquarius thing to say. Speaker 1: Yeah, the vibe, the vibe. Speaker 2: Yeah, I also can't talk to anyone before my morning coffee. Speaker 1: Similar to other. Yes, yes. Speaker 3: So, uh, a lot of your work, you said, was, uh, based around black holes. Speaker 4: Yeah, there's pretty exciting stuff going on right now. Speaker 3: What, what's this exciting stuff? Speaker 4: Well, we have this new telescope, James Webb Space Telescope. Only $8 billion. If you got some spare change, we could do a second one, but, uh, Speaker 3: Buy a whole. Speaker 4: Pull it together. Speaker 3: Couple of holes. Speaker 1: Yeah, split three ways. That's got to be only what, like, $50. Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. Speaker 4: So, it, it, it really reaches the farthest reaches of the cosmos that we can look at, and it's showing us that it seems like there's a lot more black hole growth in the early universe than we thought. Speaker 3: What do you mean, growth? Speaker 4: So, the normal way you get a black hole, normal, like, there's no normal way to get a black hole, okay? Let's start with that. But the, the normal way we think of getting a black hole is a massive star dies, and then it can grow, um, by accreting matter onto it. But that accreting matter gets hot and it pushes, kind of, pushes back on anything else that wants to fall in, so it can't grow infinitely fast. But we see really massive black holes in the early universe, maybe a million, maybe even a hundred million times the mass of the sun, only a few hundred million years into the, the, uh, the universe. And so that's really confusing if it started from these tiny things to grow that big, that fast. Speaker 2: So the timeline of that doesn't make sense, you're saying? Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's right. So, I mean, uh, just doesn't factor into the way we understand black holes growing. So some people are saying maybe there are even black holes that were there just from the start almost. You know, maybe not the first instant, but they showed up without even having any stars to form. Because it does take a while for stars to even form in the universe. The first stars don't form until 100, 150 million years after the universe started. Sounds like a long time, but, you know, we're here 13.8 billion years afterwards. Speaker 2: Yeah, just how, how can you go from something so small to something so big so quickly? Either there's some way to grow faster than we think is possible, or there's some way to get the initial black hole just much bigger than we thought. Speaker 1: So this, this like new stuff with black holes, is that, that question, that like missing piece, like why are there so many of them that are this big? It doesn't like factor into the, the timeline of the universe itself and born. Speaker 4: That's right. Speaker 2: That's right. Speaker 1: Okay. Speaker 4: That's right. Yeah, that's right. Speaker 2: 13.8? I thought it was 13.4. Is that an updated? Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a common misconception among people. Speaker 1: I have to brush up on my. Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let me get the whiteboard out. We'll talk through it. Speaker 3: Do you have a theory of how this thing started? Speaker 4: Um, Speaker 1: Podcast, he's talking about. Speaker 4: No. I got a few theories about that one. About how the black holes, uh, came into. Speaker 3: Just, just black holes, matter, life in general. Speaker 4: Oh, boy, we're going to jump in right in. Okay, I appreciate that. Speaker 3: I'm curious. You know, we talk to not smart people, so it's good to have a change of pace. Speaker 4: Well, you know, I think we have a lot of good models. I mean, it's amazing. We have these models that are really successful for physics. It explains all the interaction of matter, um, can sort of probe energies back to maybe a millionth of a second after the Big Bang. But, uh, it doesn't have dark matter in it. It doesn't have dark energy. It doesn't have all these things we think are important on the biggest scales. And that's saying that it doesn't include gravity and includes all the other forces that are out there, the forces that atoms interact with, light. But understanding gravity and how those go with it, it's been really hard for physicists. And so, um, you know, I think we have all the ingredients, but we definitely don't have the full picture right now. And that's, I think, a great place to be, right? And as for life, that's a whole another level. So how you get start from all these tiny nothings and emerge life out of that, way outside of like what I can even comprehend right now. Speaker 3: So, um, are you religious at all? Speaker 4: I am not personally. Speaker 3: Yeah. Okay. Speaker 4: Um, but that is not universal, I'd say, among people in, in the field. There are people who are religious, there are people who aren't, um, and I think that, you know, doesn't necessarily influence people's thought process. I guess it can. Speaker 3: Do you think some people in your field, they just, maybe they use the religious, the religion as a, a way to, to, of not understanding, they just like say this is from that. Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that, you know, the scientific spirit is sort of like there is stuff that we can understand, right? And so you have to, you have to be able to ask the questions, but then maybe there's some stuff that's just completely separate from that. And I think that's what they're thinking, right? That like some aspects of these questions are just things we'll never understand. It's, it's outside of the realm of science, and then it's not a big deal to, to not be able to think about it in your science because it's just a totally separate, walled off. Speaker 2: Just never going to know. Speaker 4: Exactly. Speaker 2: They're okay with that being something they'll never know. Speaker 1: So, there, there was something you were talking about before where the models don't account for dark matter. Now, can you explain to us what dark matter is, or to the best of your ability, like what it is? And, yeah. Speaker 4: Yeah, so it's, um, it's both super easy, but also very confusing. So it's basically just matter that only seems to interact with gravity. So, maybe a better way to think of it is transparent matter. So light just goes through it. Doesn't interact with, you know, the table, doesn't interact with you or me. Um, all that it does is just interact with other particles by gravity. And so it's only important sort of on the biggest scales in the universe. So we see it, um, in galaxies, we see it in setting the structure of how galaxies cluster around one another. Um, but we don't see it when we sort of try to measure the mass in a room like this. It just wouldn't be here, basically. So it's, we think of it as essential for galaxy formation, for, for cosmology, but it's completely unessential and, and unimportant for all the physics we do sort of experiment-wise around us. Even, even if you go to outer space and try to do anything, it's just meaningless out there. Um, so this room we think is filled with dark matter particles. You can't dodge them, you know. But they're never going to hit you. But, but it's, without it, we wouldn't have the gravity you need to pull gas in, to form stars, to make us, to make life, to do any of that. Speaker 2: So the only way to like observe or to even know that there is dark matter is through observing other giant things, like galaxy formation, star formations, because that's like maybe the missing, the that puzzle piece you're talking about earlier, that's like going to potentially explain why these black holes are there without the timeline making sense, or why these giant structures work the way they do. Speaker 4: Yeah, that's exactly right. So the only way we know it's there is we look at stuff and we say, I can measure how much normal stuff is there. And based on Newton's laws, I can calculate how fast that stuff should be moving. And it's moving way faster. And the only way that works is Newton's laws are wrong, and they're pretty good usually. Or there's some stuff that just interacts with gravity. And now, if it was just one thing, you'd say, okay, what, let's think about this. Let's not invent some new form of matter. But it explains all kinds of stuff from the earliest times of the universe to the galaxies that are the most nearby us today. And, uh, across a bunch of length scales. So it seems like the best model that we have. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 1: Wow. Okay, I, I want, I feel like I can't grasp that no matter how many questions I ask. Obviously, it's like, it would take years, but like, can you tell me what it might look like if there wasn't, like, if a galaxy were to form and there, it's normal. There's no need for an explanation of, of dark matter. Is that something you can tell me, or is that too complicated? Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely. It, it takes, it takes a second. So, basically, we, we know the initial conditions of the universe. We can measure light that was left over from the Big Bang, and we see tiny fluctuations in that light. Speaker 1: The microwave background thing. Look at this guy. All right. Speaker 4: Yes. The microwave background radiation. And so, it has fluctuations that are a part in 100,000 in the temperature. And that tells us the fluctuations in density are about a part in a thousand. And so we know Speaker 2: But they're different, like, they're different, differences of a thousand. Like, it's this hot and this cold, and the variance is a thousand. Speaker 4: That's right. So it's 2.73 degrees here. It's 2.72999 here. It's 2.73001 over there. So, um, and so that's the initial conditions that lead to the galaxy formation. And without dark matter, it wouldn't have had time to happen by today. With the dark matter, it can grow faster. But if we took the dark matter away, okay, we wouldn't be here today, but maybe in, in a bunch of time, the, the gas would cool up, but it wouldn't form the same way it does now. Now what happens is the smallest things kind of collapse up first, and they merge together to form big things. If it was just the normal matter, what we think would happen is we would take these huge collections of gas, I mean, billions, trillions of times the mass of the sun, and then it would just sort of split up on smaller scales that way. Speaker 2: Okay. They would like absorb into packets of small suns here and here. Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right. Speaker 2: But that's not what's happening. Instead of they're just doing this. Speaker 4: That's right. Speaker 2: Which leads everyone to think that dark matter is part of that. Speaker 4: That's right. Exactly. Yeah. Speaker 1: Okay. Okay. Speaker 4: Microwave background. Yeah. Speaker 1: I get it. Yeah. All right. I'm there. I'm in. Wow. Dark matter. Speaker 3: That's pretty crazy. So, you're not saying that dark matter is a different kind of gravity. Speaker 4: So we think it's stuff that has exactly the same kind of gravity. It's just a, a new particle that we haven't seen before because it doesn't interact, you know, it doesn't, you can't bounce it off of another particle that we know of. That's the way we normally see stuff. Um, so it's a new particle, and it has the same kind of gravity. It might even be the same kind of mass as the normal fundamental particles that we see. It just, for whatever reason, got left behind when they were painting on, you, you interact with light, you interact with, you know, nuclei. Speaker 2: That dark matter doesn't follow those. Speaker 4: Not at all. Speaker 1: So, pretty much, we can't really see it, but like, when you do equations, you need dark matter in there to make the equations equal out. Yeah, like, that's crazy. Speaker 2: Otherwise it doesn't add up. Speaker 4: Super interesting. And there's hope that you could see it. So there's hope that this would show up. And they do this wild stuff where they'll build a detector, and they put it a mile, literally a mile underground, because they don't want anything else, any cosmic rays, anything from outside the Earth's atmosphere, um, hitting this detector. And then they purchase actually like a substantial fraction of the world's known liquid xenon, or something like that. Speaker 2: Is that the one with all the light bulbs in it? Speaker 4: That's a different one. That's kind of, but that they look for dark, dark matter there too. Um, they're looking mostly for neutrinos, which are kind of related. Speaker 2: Oh, that pass through like. Speaker 1: Oh, they go through like the entire Earth, right? Speaker 2: Yeah, actually like 100 miles of lead without being or something like that. Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, like a light year of lead without. Speaker 2: A light year of lead. Holy guacamole. Speaker 4: So, you know, we could test that if you want, but, uh, yeah, I wouldn't. Speaker 1: Good penetration. Speaker 2: That's too much. It would hurt the lead. Speaker 1: Yeah, never mind. Speaker 4: Um, but yeah, no, but it's a similar idea, right? You want to shield everything else. The dark matter, the neutrinos, they get through the Earth, no problem. And then you get as much xenon as you can physically get, uh, and you put it in the detector and you just wait, and you hope something happens. Speaker 3: Why xenon? Why xenon? Speaker 4: So xenon is, it's a, it's a noble gas, so it's very inert. It doesn't have any kind of interactions. And they're, they're natural impurities in xenon at a part in a million, basically. And they have to filter it to a part in a trillion, and then they can actually do this. So there's not like crazy signal just from these random xenon things just going on in the detector by itself. So, there's a lot of, there's a lot of like engineering, a lot of all this stuff that goes into it. And so people are putting lots of effort into this, and we've gotten really good at not detecting dark matter. Like, we, we are super experts at not detecting. Speaker 2: Okay. Speaker 1: It'll change one day. Speaker 4: Yeah, you'll know when it happens, right? I'll, I'll just come running down the street. Speaker 1: We did it. We did it. Speaker 4: Screaming, we did it. Yeah. Speaker 1: So, what's, what's going to happen when they do detect dark, they're just going to be like, oh, we were right. Speaker 2: Now it makes sense. Speaker 1: Okay. Speaker 4: Now we're going to put it, you know, it's going with the Epstein file. We can't tell anyone. No, I'm just kidding. Like, you know, I got to get paid now. So I think the, the really good thing about that is then we'd be able to start to answer some of these questions. We could start to say, look, are there interactions that we don't know about with this dark matter particle? Does that help us form black holes in ways we didn't think? Um, and also, you know, I think part of the scientific beauty is that you don't know what you're going to find out until you find it out. A lot of science is not, I think this is going to happen, I try this, and it happens. A lot of science is like, I think this is going to happen, it fails in a whole bunch of ways. I try something wild, and I learn something totally new. And that's, yeah, and that's a lot of where a lot of the deepest discoveries come from. Speaker 2: I'm excited. Speaker 1: So, kind of, I was, I was just going to wonder, or I was just going to ask like, what you're personally interested in studying right now? Like, if you had all resources at your disposal, what, what would you pursue to study and to learn about right now? Like, what's your discovery that you want to make in your, in your life? Speaker 2: So cool. Speaker 4: Yeah, that would be really cool. Okay, I, I think finding dark matter would be amazing. But I think the other thing that we're sort of trying to push towards is really looking for the very first generation of stars that formed in the universe, because they had to look very different from the stars that are forming now. The stars that are forming now are forming out of gas that includes, you know, sort of the whole periodic table. Uh, the very first stars only had hydrogen and helium to form out of. That's what was left over after the Big Bang. And so, um, they looked very different. They must have been extremely massive. Um, and we maybe they are the ones that died of these black holes. Um, we don't know. Speaker 2: That would explain why the black holes happen so fast, right? Speaker 4: Exactly. And when they formed, all of this. So if we could really, like, that would be the first real light in the universe after that microwave background was emitted. So that's, you know, 380,000 years after the Big Bang, all the way to maybe 150 million years, it was just dark, right? There was nothing, no sources of light. And this would be the first light bulb that turned on. Speaker 2: The pure hydrogen helium stars that are huge. Speaker 4: Exactly. And so the first one that goes off, I would love to be able to be like, yep, got you. Speaker 2: That's the one. Speaker 4: Yep. That's the one. Speaker 1: Now, because there are black holes that are created from stars, but isn't like in inside of every galaxy, there's like what they call like a supermassive black hole? Speaker 4: Absolutely. Speaker 1: Can, can you explain that to us a little bit? Speaker 4: Sure. So the centers of galaxies have these black holes that are not of order the mass of a sun, which is 2 times 10 to the 30 kilograms, if we're, you know, being careful about it. Um, these things are typically a million or a billion times bigger than that. So they sit at the very center of a galaxy. Our galaxy has a black hole that's been very precisely measured recently. It's like 4.3 million times the mass of the sun. There's actually stars you can trace making full orbits around there. You see these stars going around nothingness in the center of the galaxy, okay? And you can just track the star with Newton's laws, and it's exactly, it'll tell you this, this has to be 4.3 million times the mass of the sun inside of that. Speaker 2: Wow. Speaker 1: Wow. Speaker 2: So the size of that star orbiting in the center. How many, like, how many, like, rotation, like, fast around, or is it kind of like? Speaker 4: Exactly. And then there's another one. Speaker 2: How many, like, rotation, like, fast around, or is it kind of like? Speaker 4: It's super fast on cosmic time scale. So I'm used to thinking in terms of billions of years, maybe millions of years. The closest star, I think, has an orbital period of 16 years. So we've seen it go through a whole. Speaker 2: That's fast. I feel like that's extremely fast. Speaker 4: Oh, no, it's, it's crazy fast. Yeah. Speaker 1: Oh, shit. So, a star that size moving that quickly. So we have the mass, like, you have the mass. How big is it? Obviously, it's hard to really measure because like, the light's not even, and that's massive. Speaker 2: 6 inches. Speaker 1: Massive. Speaker 4: How big is the black hole? Speaker 1: Average. Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, well, I can tell you exactly how big the black holes are, because once you know the mass, you know exactly how big they are. Speaker 1: Really? Speaker 4: There's a precise relation. It just scales linearly, okay? So, if you were the sun, you turn into a black hole, you know, I snap my fingers, I got powers. We talked about this. You know, watch out. Snap my fingers. Speaker 2: It'll weigh the same. It'll just. Speaker 4: It just, all that mass gets smooshed down the same spot. Speaker 1: Yeah, that's about what I'm curious. I want to know how, yeah. Speaker 4: So the sun, normally the sun is like, um, you know, 100 times the size of the Earth in, in like radius. So 100 times bigger. You smoosh the sun down to a black hole, it has a size that's 3 kilometers. Speaker 1: Oh, wow. Speaker 2: 3 kilometers across. Speaker 4: 3 kilometers in radius. Speaker 2: But it weighs the same. Speaker 4: It weighs exactly the same. Yeah. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 2: So, the just on, on that, um, the actual physical structure of the sun is inside the black, like the sphere that light can't escape from, right? Speaker 4: So, what we think happens is that there's no, there's nothing that can be a physical structure inside of a black hole. Speaker 2: Oh, I thought it was. Speaker 4: It gets smooshed down to this point. Speaker 2: Singularity. Speaker 4: Exactly, singularity. Speaker 2: Even if there's like an incredibly large amount of substance, it's still that singularity. Speaker 4: That's right. It all goes to this place that basically gets cut off from the rest of the universe. Just, just, yeah. Speaker 2: So it's just. And then, but then why, if it's a singularity, why does the black hole, like the sphere of the, uh, event horizon? There we go. Why does that get bigger then? If it's the singularity, like, wouldn't it just like more mass just go singularity, and it would stay the same universal size? I, I don't know how it works. Speaker 4: Yeah, you'd think so, but basically, there are these rules that are kind of like, um, it's almost like the, the rules of heat transfer or something like that. You can associate the, the surface area of this with Speaker 2: Of the black hole. Speaker 4: Of the black hole with the kind of information that it contains. And so, if you merge together two things, they have to sort of have that information that was still there. So it can't stay the same size. It has to get bigger. Speaker 2: Just, okay. Speaker 4: Just from sort of like conservation laws of you can't get rid of this. Speaker 2: Yeah. Like, if you put in two things in there, then by you can't delete, you can't create or destroy matter. Speaker 4: That's, that's, you know, people still debate about this a lot, but yes, that's the idea. You can't, you can't get rid of this information. It's in there. You may not be able to access it, but it's there somewhere. Speaker 2: That's something like that, or is that? Speaker 1: It's there, and the event horizon is going to get a little bigger because you put it in there. Okay, so continuing about your question about like the size of it in the end. Speaker 5: Are you feeling stuck? Most guys just accept feeling stuck. Stress, low energy, bad sleep, like it's normal, but it's not. So stop feeling stuck, fix the root issues and start living like you used to. Speaker 1: Um, well, that, that was more so. So you're saying if, if the sun turned into a black hole, it'd basically be 3 kilometers. That's what you're saying. And how big is the supermassive black hole, like, radius-wise in our galaxy, if you know? Speaker 3: That's kind of. Speaker 4: Yeah, so that would be about actually the radius of our sun. So it's a million times more, you know, 4 million times more massive, but it has that size of, of the. Speaker 1: And now, do you know that star that's closest to it that's doing the rate, uh, you know, doing the orbit? How close is that? Speaker 4: Oh, that's a good one. That I do not know off the top of my head. Speaker 1: Cuz, yeah, that's just, that's just crazy. Also, be careful with these C4s. They're very, very strong. Yeah, very caffeinated. Speaker 3: It's good. I'm going to get, going to get wiser and wiser. Speaker 1: So, if the sun were to collapse into a black hole, it would be 3 kilometers across. Speaker 4: That's right. Speaker 1: And the, the black hole at the center of the universe is the size of the sun. What does that mean for the, like, what collapsed? Speaker 2: So, if the sun were to collapse into a black hole, it would be 3 kilometers across. That's right. And the, the black hole at the center of the universe is the size of the sun. What does that mean for the, like, what collapsed? What it was before it collapsed into, if that did happen, I, I don't know how it works. Speaker 4: Well, yeah, that's one of the questions we're trying to answer, because we've seen a lot of these black holes, seen, you know, we've detected a lot of these black holes that are around. Speaker 2: We've seen that they're miss, something's missing from right there. Speaker 4: Um, that are around the mass of the sun, or maybe 10 times the mass of the sun. We've seen a lot of these that are millions to billions times the mass of the sun. We've never seen anything that's kind of right in the middle, 100,000 times the mass of the sun. There's this missing link, right? And so then now there's this question, could we just grow these small ones into these big ones by shoving gas in, shoving planets in, shoving our attitudes in? Speaker 2: Yeah, they can't be eating matter. Why do they not just? Speaker 4: That's right. But there's like, you only see. Speaker 2: Small and big. Speaker 4: That's right. And so a lot of people think there are the, the middle ones. We just haven't found them because they're hard to find. The other possibility is that you just have to start with a much bigger initial black hole. Then that sort of goes back to this question about the early universe, why are these things so big so early? Is it because they were started small and grew really fast, or they had to start big? Speaker 1: Black holes have an expiration date? Speaker 2: Hawking radiation. Speaker 4: Hawking radiation. That's true. So black holes have an expiration date. Uh, the. Speaker 1: Isn't that, real quick, is that radiation that actually escapes black holes? Is that what it is? Speaker 2: I, can I take a whack at this? Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Speaker 2: I'd rather hear it from you than the expert. You see particles popping in and out of existence. So far so good. Speaker 4: So far so good. Yeah. Speaker 2: I'll try. Sometimes they, so they pop in and out of existence. Sometimes they pop in and out of existence right on the edge of the black hole. So far, yeah. Speaker 4: So far so good. Yeah. Speaker 2: And, okay, here's where I kind of forget. Like, one part gets sucked in, and one part gets ejected out. So the piece that gets ejected out is like a piece of mass lost from the black hole. So it gets like that tiny bit smaller. Speaker 4: Yeah. That's the one. You got it. Nailed it. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 1: You're welcome. All right. Speaker 3: So, back, back to the answer. Speaker 2: Yeah, you tell us a better version of that. Speaker 4: No, that's, I think that's exactly right. You know, space on the smallest scales is always, there are particles popping in and out of existence. We never notice it, um, but it's just happening all the time. They kind of borrow a little energy from, from spacetime itself, pop in and out of existence. Normally that's fine. Happens at the edge of a black hole, weird stuff happens. So black holes eventually, like I said, it's sort of related to heat. So it has this surface area. It's actually can radiate, like the sun radiates heat. Um. Speaker 3: So like the, sun gets sucked into a black hole. It's, you said it's like 3 kilometers, right? Once it's in, and then where, what happens to that matter once the black hole expires? Speaker 4: So it just all goes right to that center. It doesn't, it can't hang out anywhere, you know, so. Speaker 2: Goes to the singularity. Goes right to the. Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right. So once you're inside of that event horizon, you're shut off from the rest of the universe, okay? You can never get back out. Stuff can come and join you, but it can't get back out. Speaker 3: But even when the black hole expires, you can't get back out. Speaker 4: Um, so people can't get back out, right? No, nothing, nothing gets out. It's just this particles that are unrelated to the stuff that fell into it, right? They're, they're just, um, light is getting emitted, basically, from the. Speaker 1: Really? Can we detect anything past the event horizon? Or it's pretty much, this is now just Pandora's box. We have no idea what's, what's past that event horizon. Speaker 4: Yeah, so if you think about like trying to get a rocket out from Earth, right? If you, if you just shoot your rocket and you just fizzle it with a little bit, you know, blow on it, it'll just go up a tiny bit, fall back down. You push it a little harder, it'll go pretty far. You push it hard enough, it escapes the Earth's gravity, right? And it can go away. Um, these black holes, you can basically define that edge is where the escape velocity would be the speed of light. So, Speaker 2: Something has to move like matter has to. Speaker 4: It would have to go faster than the speed of light to get out. Right? And so nothing can get out. You can't see anything from inside of there. Speaker 1: Wow. Speaker 4: That's, that's. Speaker 1: So the matter does still doesn't technically get destroyed. Speaker 4: So, we think the information doesn't get destroyed. We have no idea what happens to the matter. Um, we haven't ever seen anything, but all the theories tell you that it kind of gets smooshed down in this region of infinite density and zero space. But when you get an infinity in a theory, that usually means you just, you need a better theory. Speaker 1: Just send somebody expendable up there. Speaker 4: I know. Speaker 1: I know. Speaker 2: Speaking of. Speaker 1: Expendable. Speaker 2: Uh, wait, just to add onto your question, like, the information goes in there, and it's in that singularity. And then you were saying like, that there's got to be an expiry date for a black hole. So when the black hole does go, I don't know, explodes, or whatever the hell happens. What happens to all that info that went in there if it can't get deleted, and it stayed in there that whole time? Like, is there a big explosion of all that information or something? Speaker 4: Yeah, so the idea is as it's leaking out these particles, that's information that it's kind of leaking out. Speaker 2: It's just being jumbled and sent out. Speaker 4: Jumbled and sent out. So, you know, you throw a dictionary in, you won't be getting a dictionary out, but you might get like a letter here. Exactly. And if you really knew a lot, maybe you'd stick it back together. Scotch tape. Speaker 2: Like shredded and then. Speaker 1: Like all those bits of information, you could get like the piece of paper you sent in there, but that's. Speaker 3: Is there any evidence of a black hole, um, being birthed and then dying like fairly fast, like in one lifetime? Speaker 4: So, as far as we know, there's never been a black hole that has completely evaporated. So the idea is, you know, this radiation would let a black hole evaporate after a while. Um, but that's only, the, the fast, the smaller a black hole is, the lower mass, the faster it evaporates. Speaker 2: It's like it exponentially increases, it burns out quicker the smaller it gets. Speaker 4: That's right. And so the big ones, the ones that we know exist, they would live for way longer than the age of the universe. So we've only seen them getting bigger. But there is an article recently, like last week, where they think they saw one being formed, where they, they saw a star, and then no star. Speaker 1: Wow. Speaker 4: Really? And so, um, yeah, so we can see the reverse of that. Yeah. So I think that's the first time we've really, people think they may have seen that directly. We've seen an exploding star. Um, never. Speaker 2: Oh, that's crazy. Speaker 1: Never an imploding. Speaker 4: Never one where, yeah, you just didn't see anything at all at the end. So, um. Speaker 2: When it does, like, when if, when a star does go from emitting light to there, like, it's the end of its life, it doesn't supernova, it then it implodes. Is there like any, like, is there a clear like, it's an implosion to a black hole, or because sometimes the star can implode into like a, I don't know, a dwarf. Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right. So there are several different possibilities at the end of life, and they almost always involve a supernova or something like that. So you blow out the outer layers, and then the rest collapses up, um, and it's sort of all the same, right? So these stars live for, well, the most massive ones maybe live for 10 million years. Our sun will live for 10 billion years. Um, but at the end of the life, things happen a lot faster, and, and that last collapse might be take only, you know, a second or something like that. And it blows up with the energy of an entire galaxy. Okay? And then what happens is the. Speaker 2: That's right. Speaker 1: Wow. Speaker 2: Supernova shines brighter than the galaxy it's in. It's insane. Speaker 4: That's right. And so you can actually see that with Hubble Space Telescope or James Webb. You see. Speaker 1: We've seen this? Speaker 4: Yeah, you go, you look, and you can see it. There's nothing there, and then you come back a year later, and there's something as bright as the rest of the galaxy in that one spot. Speaker 1: Wow. Speaker 4: Wow. That is crazy. Speaker 2: But that, that light, that supernova light is only emitted for like what, like a few. Speaker 4: A fraction of a second. Yeah. And, uh, so it's super short. And then what happens is the stuff will collapse up, um, depending on how much mass is there. It might get stopped up just with electrons and protons. And then so it'll sort of be held up as this big ball just of electrons and protons. Speaker 2: Oh, wow. Speaker 1: Just like a, like a mush, like a mist of. Speaker 4: A mush. Exactly. And it'll be, that's what's called a white dwarf, and it'll just cool forever, basically. Then, um, that's what our sun's fate will be, we think. Speaker 2: It'll turn to white dwarf and then slowly evaporate. Speaker 4: Slowly just cool off and then die out as a. Speaker 1: Big rock. Speaker 4: Yeah, it'll just be a big ball of iron, right? Well, it won't be iron, because to get iron, you really, you really need to, um, put a lot more energy into these explosions, um, than, than what we're going to get for the sun probably. Um, there, there'll be some iron, but it won't be all, all iron. Um, but so you can, you can do that. You can then also, if it's heavy enough, you could actually crush the electrons and protons together to form neutrons. Speaker 2: Neutron star. Speaker 4: You get a neutron star. So neutron star. Speaker 2: That's the densest one, right? Speaker 4: That's the densest one. So there you get like, um, uh, yeah, something where it's, um, you know, sort of the, a teaspoon of it weighs more than like a mountain, basically. I mean, there's just no space between the, uh, like right now, all matter has like, it's mostly empty space. But neutron star, it's like the, the neutron, the neutrons are literally neck and neck, like shoulder to shoulder. Speaker 2: Oh, wow. Speaker 4: That's right. So it's, yeah, these things have crazy properties. They're really interesting. And then if it's more massive than that, and it can't even get stopped up by that, that's when it turns into a black hole. Speaker 1: So, so the, sorry, the neutron star is the final, sorry, the final stage. If it doesn't go, if it goes past neutron, more dense, then you get black hole. Speaker 2: That's the densest one, right? Speaker 4: That's right. Okay. Speaker 1: Okay, all right, sorry. All right, so we have all these stars, and, you know, a lot of these stars have planets that orbit them and stuff like that. How common is it to have Earth-like properties? How many other possible Earths can there be? And do you believe that, you know, they can sustain life? Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a great question. I think that's one of the sort of driving questions in trying to study planets around other stars. And it's, that's been something that even in my lifetime went from something where we know of no other planets outside of our solar system, to now we know of, I think, tens of thousands. I mean, like, the first one was discovered in the 90s, and it's just been this explosion of technology. But, you know, all we can really see is this stuff that's super close to us. It's so wild, you know, we're studying these planets really carefully. Most of the ones we see look a lot more like Jupiter than like Earth. It's just, yeah, gas giants. It's much easier to see a big planet. Um, one with a lot of mass that's. Speaker 2: Gas giants. Speaker 1: You see it pass in front of the star it's orbiting, right? Speaker 4: Yeah, so there are a few ways you can see it. That's a great way to see it. That's called a transit. So you sort of measure the light of the star, and then you cover it up with a little bit of this, you know, planet, and it'll dip, dim a little bit, and then it'll come back up in a, in a predictable way. So that's one way you can do it. The other way is if you just see a. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 1: Oh, doing an oscillate a little bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Speaker 4: See that wobble. Speaker 2: What is it wobbling because it's like a. Speaker 4: Because it's pulling on it. Yeah, yeah. And the pull is much better if it's a bigger planet, right? So us pulling on the sun, nothing. But Jupiter really close to the sun would pull on it a lot. And so that's how people see. Those are the two main ways people look for, for things. And with JWST now, actually, James Webb Space Telescope, we're actually seeing atmospheres around some of these planets. So we're measuring what these things can look like. Speaker 2: Because it's pulling on it. Yeah. Speaker 1: So from like the light that bounces off the planet, you see like what gases are on it or something. Speaker 4: Yeah, that's exactly. You're seeing, you know, maybe water, methane, whatever is in the atmosphere. Speaker 2: Because H2O refracts light in a specific way, and you guys can. Speaker 4: That's right. Um, so that's, that's a big deal now. But yeah, the, the ultimate goal is to sort of make a catalog of what's all out there, and how common could life be in the universe? And, you know, I think there's sort of two camps on this. One is like, holy shit, look at this universe. It's huge, right? Like, how could there. Speaker 2: That's crazy. Speaker 4: There's no way life isn't out there. Exactly. Then the other one is like, man, it is really hard to get life. Life is not easy. Life is precious. You know, like, so many things had to go right to get life on Earth that maybe that's just there's not other stuff out there. Or the number is so small that we'll never see it in our galaxy. Speaker 1: And where do you fall into that? Speaker 4: Well, I kind of, I oscillate, but I more often I'm on the side of, look at this universe, man. There's so much going on. How could there not be life somewhere else in this vastness that we see? Speaker 2: Um, can, I don't know if I, this is like what your expertise is in, but like, I've always wondered like how or when we're going to concretely know how, like, particles went from non-life to. Speaker 1: Like non-organic to organic. Speaker 2: At what point, at what, what was the exact part, you know? Like, I've heard people say, oh, tardigrades came from Mars or some shit. But like, I don't know what the, you know, yeah, maybe you could tell us for that. Speaker 4: You got a Polly Market bet on this or something? You want to good. No, I'm just joking. No, I, I don't know. I, I don't know, and I think that's, that's almost a question for like philosophy also. Like, what, what does it even mean to have that first step of life? People, I think, in, in the biological side of things, are still debating what is it actually. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 1: Is it DNA? Speaker 4: Yeah, like, what, what is this, what is that definition? And how do you, how do you cross that bridge? I think that's like one of the deepest questions out there for sure. Speaker 1: You know what's, what's interesting too is like, so, what, what, what were, Jesus. What, what we're looking at is, uh, millions of years old, technically, right? Speaker 4: Oh, yeah. Speaker 1: So, it's like, even if there was life at what we're looking at, it would take us, it would take millions of years for us to even see that, right? Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 4: Yeah, I got a few things for you on this one. Okay. Let's start closest that we can. Um, you know, our, the, the sun orbits around the center of the galaxy. And it takes a couple hundred million years to make one full orbit. So, when the dinosaurs lived, the Earth was on the other side of the galaxy. Like, that's where we were. That's how long ago it was, okay? And you look at light coming from the nearest kind of big galaxy, the Andromeda galaxy. That's, um, you know, something that is millions of light years away, right? Like, we're talking about light that, that takes millions of years to get to us. And so, all of these things, yeah, we're seeing them as they were when the light was emitted. So, even the nearest galaxies, we're only seeing as they were a few million years ago. The ones that James, James Webb Space Telescope seeing, we're seeing them as they were 13 billion years ago, right? They're now 40 billion light years away from us. They're like, right, we've never seen it again. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 1: Wow. Speaker 2: And the universe is expanding the more time goes on too, so they're even further now, right? Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right. So the universe is not just expanding, that expansion is accelerating. So it's going faster and faster. Speaker 2: That's another dark matter candidate thing, like the space is increasing, which doesn't add up or something. Speaker 4: Yeah, that's, that's, um, you know, astronomers are terrible at naming things. Like, we see something, we're like, that's a type. Speaker 1: Dark C.S. 1. Speaker 4: That's right. Yeah, no, it's like, it's a type one object, and that other one is a type two object, you know? And it's like, yeah, we see this stuff. It's like, it looks like matter. We'll call it dark matter. And then we saw this stuff, it's called dark energy. Nothing to do with each other. The only thing that, that have to do with each other is we don't know what the hell they are, right? So dark energy is this stuff that seems to be ripping space apart that's causing this, because, you know, you think, okay, if the only force is gravity, gravity pulls stuff together. Speaker 2: Oh, that's crazy. Speaker 4: Yeah, you would think the universe would. Speaker 2: Do this over time. Speaker 4: Yeah, so the universe, if it sort of started out with this explosion, it would be slowing down, right? And then maybe it would eventually stop. No, it's actually speeding up in its expansion, and nobody knows why. So if you guys know why, tell me, you know, we'll write up the paper. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 1: We'll, we'll, uh, we'll get down to it. We'll get on it. Speaker 3: Um, so, if you think, uh, if, hypothetically, if there was another planet that could sustain life, um, it'd be so incredibly far away, we can't even see it. You, how likely do you think it is that we've been visited by aliens? Speaker 4: Yeah, personally, I think it's pretty unlikely. I think the, like, you know, the space is so far apart. Why would they want to come to this planet as opposed to other planets? And the technology is so hard, right? I mean, like, we're talking about maybe going back to the moon soon, maybe if we're lucky going to Mars, right? The moon, it's amazing we visited in like the 60s and 70s, but it's really hard. We haven't been back, we haven't put a human on the moon since 1972. No human's been to Mars. And we're talking about. Speaker 1: You don't believe in it. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. Speaker 3: Have you ever been a skeptic of that? Speaker 4: I have not been a skeptic of that, but, uh, you know, I, I think that I understand, I think part of the science is being skeptical and being, you know, receptive to that evidence, right? So I think, you know, it's sort of a trust but verify kind of situation. Like, you don't want to, you don't want to say, of course, yeah, this guy told me this, so, sure. Like, this, this guy came on my podcast, told me there was dark matter out there. Yeah, of course there's dark matter. It's sort of like, well, why does he think there's dark matter? Um, but, you know, those distances are so small compared to the distances to these other stars, right? We're talking about, um, sort of millions of a light year in the scale of the solar system, right? To going to the nearest stars are a light year, or a few light years away. And that's just the nearest stars. The ones with habitable kind of planets might be, you know, hundreds of light years, maybe even thousands. Speaker 2: You have to be like, okay, I've, you know. Speaker 1: How do you traverse that? Speaker 2: Not going at the speed of light. Speaker 4: Yeah, how do you do that? How do you get that technology? How do you figure out, you know, human lifespan in that and, and living on those ships? So it's, it's hard. But, you know, it's a big universe, so maybe. Speaker 1: So, you're saying. Speaker 3: So, you're saying, like, an incredibly old, um, species to travel if that was happening. Speaker 1: Uh, what, what's your, um, you know. Speaker 2: Social security number. Speaker 1: Yeah, that. Like, the whole idea of like wormholes. Is it proven, or just, is it just mathematically proven, but we haven't seen it? Uh, you know. Speaker 4: Yeah, so wormhole would be maybe something that could, could connect parts of the universe that normally shouldn't be connectable, right? So you could sort of almost just like teleport from one place to another. Speaker 2: Without breaking any laws. Like, you don't go faster than light. Speaker 4: That's right. You could pass go, collect $200, do it all. Yeah. Um, and, you know, there are theories where this can happen, and sometimes they can be related to black holes even, or things like that. Um, but the thing is, to keep a wormhole stable, you need matter that we've never seen before that has really weird properties. And so, I think theoretically, it's possible, but I'm not sure that anybody would say like, oh, yeah, it's, it's like a reality. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 1: Which is not proven. Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely not proven. Um, but I think not disproven at that level. And so again, like, I think it's probably unlikely they're out there, but I'm, I'm willing to entertain that because it's one of those things like, you follow the math where it goes, and you try to figure out what else could, could be happening. But if, if the math is always pointing in the one way, then you got to really take it seriously. Speaker 1: So the math does work, but we just don't have that matter to. Speaker 4: Yeah. Apparently. And maybe, maybe it's impossible to make, right? We just don't know that. But, um, yeah, the math could work out there. Speaker 2: No evidence that it's impossible, but there's definitely no evidence that it's. Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right. Speaker 1: Um, we, we've like had conversations about the large hadron collider. Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. Nice. Speaker 1: Uh, we don't know anything about it. Can you, can you tell us about. Speaker 2: We've been solving the problems. Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. We've been there like a little bit behind what we've come to. Speaker 2: We're here to debrief you. Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right. If you have a notepad, that might be useful. I don't know if you're going to remember. Yeah, you. I just talked to my graduate student about this. I was like, you remember this? Sit down, take some notes, bro. Good, good, good. Same way. Yeah, so, you know, this is actually the way for long, longest time we made the, the most discoveries, right? We, you smash things together harder and harder, and you see what's inside. And, uh, that's basically what particle colliders are. Speaker 1: Anything, please. Speaker 2: Okay. Speaker 1: Take it away. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. 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Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. 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Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. 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Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. 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Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. 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Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. 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Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. 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Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 2: Tell us what you know first. Speaker 1: Tell us